UTAH Sex offender claims Web registry is unconstitutional
Mary Richards reporting
A convicted sex offender feels Utah's Web registry is unconstitutional. It's something the Utah Supreme Court will decide.
Steven Arthur Briggs was convicted of sexually abusing a 9-year-old girl, but he says being on Utah's sex offender registry doesn't let him defend himself.
His lawyer told the Utah Supreme Court on Wednesday that the registry violates due process rights, and some justices did say the implication of being on the registry could be worse than the offense.
But the state argues it publishes the truth on the registry so the public can decide what to do with the information.
The court should issue an opinion in the coming months.
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Comments from KSL.COM
How ironic...
Report Commentby Lurkinlizard @ 9:00am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
...that someone who gets his kicks violating someone else's rights is crybabying about HIS rights.
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Do right and fear no one! Max von Stephanitz
ditto :+48
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Try to understand
Report Commentby xmirage2kx @ 9:03am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Once you diddle around with a little kid you lose certain rights. GET OVER IT
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Every law that is passed is another freedom that is LOST.
ditto :+43
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being on Utah's sex offender registry doesn't let him defend himself
Report Commentby Ernie Woo @ 9:07am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Wahh. Cry me a river you filthy animal.
"and some justices did say the implication of being on the registry could be worse than the offense."
Dear Justices, you must not have had a 9-year old family member molested by a filthy savage like Steven Arthur Briggs. I bet you would change your tune.
Steven Arthur Briggs should not be on the sex registry list. He should be in a cage. Filth.
ditto :+24
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Once you commit
Report Commentby budwa @ 9:52am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
a crime of this sort you have proven to society that you are serious lacking in humanity, and devoid of any civility. You should have no civil rights if you commit a crime of this fashion. In my opinion, you are lucky our justice system allows you to live.
ditto :+2
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Another honest phillosophical question.....
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 10:09am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
If someone who commits a crime of this nature is "lacking in humanity"?
Why is it so common?
Particularly in Utah? (not a slam guys....numbers don't lie.)
It is also extremely common in third world countries.
Many call violence "inhumane" as well, but violence seems to be part of the very human nature.
So is it that we find these crimes to be truly unnatural...or that we dispise our own lower and primal natures?
Thoughts?
ditto :+4
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Inhumane
Report Commentby budwa @ 10:31am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
is based upon the concept that via our neo-mammalian brain and associated matter, humans are capable of understanding the basic tenets of decency. Whether that "decency" varies throughout the world or not is inconsequential in my opinion. I am talking about this country and the laws therein. Understanding those tenets leads to a civilized society. Should one violate those tenets with intent to the extent that another person loses their life, that killer has violated the very tenets that separate us from other animals, and has violated the tenets of society, thus, we have all been violated. It is the understanding of humanity and civility that separates us from many other species. Should you violate those tenets, I am of the belief, that you have proven yourself unworthy of being considered humane and civil, and you should be treated accordingly. We will shoot and kill Wolves on sight, but we will coddle this pig in prison for years for behavior far worse than that of the wolf. The wolf is killing for survival. This maggot did not kill for survival, and it wasn't another's livestock he killed.
disagree :-5
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So to understand....
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 10:45am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Humanity's nature is defined by the rules of society?
I guess the real question is:
"What is human?"
Are we defined as human SOLELY by how well we acclomate to the rules of a large group of other humans?
Where do our lesser, primal insincts play into the definition?
Or do they?
I've often heard it theorized that many men that molest children do not do it for sexual gratification, but for the sense of control it gives them.
That is very predatory to be sure. But we have canines. We eat and crave meat. So we are, in fact, predators by nature.
So I guess I am asking, is it in our impulse to call this "inhumane" because we find the thought of having anything in common (even physically)with this kind of filth repugnant....
Or is there a true difference in the human condition when one does not conform to the rules of society?
(p.s. Can you tell I think a bit too much?)
split vote :0
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Humanity's nature is defined by the rules of society?
Report Commentby budwa @ 11:06am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
No.
Reread and try again.
disagree :-3
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No I don't think I will
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 11:15am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
That response was not in the nature of respect that I was trying to initiate.
Therefore I'm done.
pity....I thought better of you.
ditto :+1
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It was not an attempt to slight
Report Commentby budwa @ 11:41am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
you or your conversation. It was because of a conference call.
Simply put, you have it backwards. Society does not define the rules of humanity. It is the the basic tenets of humanity afforded us by the ability to define humanity that provides for the framework of civilized society, and the rules by which it exists.
insightful :+3
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Here he is folks . . .
Report Commentby The voice of reason @ 11:50am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
http://corrections.utah.gov/asp-bin/sexoffender.asp?offender=39266&addrid=722398&jurs_flg=U&name_id=156554&sex_ofndr_id=752
Not to downplay the seriousness of his offense but it looks like he's been an upstanding citizen for about 20 years.
Additionally, the fact that he continues to register tells me he's willing to abide the law. The ones I worry about are the ones that refuse to register or don't have an information or bad information on file. Or even with more recent offenses.
This guy's just old, he's too old, he's OLD.
Kinda weird though, that "Brigham Young" is one of his aliases. Does share a bit of a resemblance.
ditto :+2
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(No Subject)
Report Commentby Hardtaill @ 5:07pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
What he did to the nine year old was unconstitutional. Seems fair, don't you think?
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Where Is Wisdom?
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Here he is folks
Report Commentby chanamb @ 11:58am - Fri Apr 4th, 2008
He has been in Jail and Prison for the last 20 years while his victims struggled to recover. He was repeatedly remanded to jail becaus he refused to register after serving his last prison sentence for attempting to bomb the courthouse and threatening the judge. By the way he served more time for that offense then molesting his 9 year old victim. Many of the address' they have listed for him have been incorrect on the registry. This man is a vicious man and I know this from personal experience as a member of the family he destroyed. He has no respect for the law unless he can use it for his own purposes.
split vote :0
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ic
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 12:01pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
then I apoligies for my assumptions.
But if it is inherent humanity that is sculpting all of the rules of society....
Then why isn't this behavior more acceptable then seeing how it is so common?
Also, why do cultural values very so much world wide?
example: Here Murder and sex with teens and suicide are reprehensible.
In other cultures, Murder in the name of a God is still common and sanctioned, women are married of at as young as 12 to 14, and assisted suicide is perfectly legal.
With that in mind, are the rules of society a true indicator of the human condition?
troll :-1
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No apologies necessary.
Report Commentby budwa @ 12:43pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
After re-reading myself, in my haste, I was short and sarcastic.
The rules of society as a whole are not sculpted by humanity.
The rules of society are born of the basic tenets of humanity, because we can perceive humanity, and because we exist beyond and instinctive level. That humanity is born of our ability to define ourselves.
Yes, it varies greatly in different cultures. In my opinion, there are still inhumane practices is parts of the world. Yes, people still kill in the name of God. That is because some people have voided the tenets of decency and humanity to either provide personal gain for themselves, or for their cause. Because many believe so devoutly in the word or the cause, and because we understand that devotion, some can/will distort those tenets, and it is not seen as a violation of humanity if the end justifies the means. Religion/s are one of the most prominent violators of humanity throughout history.
Gotta go again. This is just my opinion of course.
ditto :+8
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I disagree with the Registry as well
Report Commentby just my opinion @ 11:19am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
We should take all the names of those on the Registry and lock them in thier own prison for life, or sentence these pervs with the capital punishment.
Or we could tattoo their foreheads: P-Pedophile Child Molester, R-Rapist
Or we could just put tracking devices on these perverts so the police know where they are at all times.
They cry about discriminition but thier victims live with the shame, fear of violence and intimacy because some perv has changed thier life forever by stealing thier innocence. You can never enjoy childhood again once something like this happens, why should they get a second chance when victims do not have that choice!
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“Don't give me that jive“
ditto :+1
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Humm....
Report Commentby Wake-up-and-smell-the-coffee @ 11:36am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I like the idea of simply keeping them behind bars forever - e.g., no need for a registry. However, I question the efficacy of tracking devices. So what if the guy has a tracking device on - so the cops know he is in the local mall or grocery store or sitting in his own living room. Does that device let the cops know that he also has a child with him in his living room - a child that he might be molesting? No. And of course, the registry doesn't guarantee that he won't molest another child, but it does (at least) allow those who live around him know that he MIGHT present a risk and allow them to make better decisions with regard to how they or their children associate with him.
Personally, I'd throw them in jail for LIFE and be done with them once and for all. Since we're not doing that, I think we need the registry AND putting tracking devices on them ain't a bad idea either!
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Just my opinion...
ditto :+2
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Ditto..................
Report Commentby Afwife @ 12:05pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
and just to save time cut off their limbs and let them live I think that they should suffer...don't forget their private parts....
They aren't even human in my eyes...they don't deserve to live. They can't pay enough for what they do to children.
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check this out
Report Commentby Chubby_Monkey @ 7:13am - Fri Apr 4th, 2008
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00091/ed_imgSNN3027A_91774a.jpg
this guy raped a girl, a relative who was also in prison tattooed his forehead
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I eat therefore I am.
offtopic :-1
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Thinking too much?
Report Commentby WiseGuy @ 2:05pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
The concept "inhumane" does not incorporate "inhuman", and so the purported link between a "humane" act and a "human" act does not exist (and may be antithetical: Hitler was human, and so the holocaust was a human action, but hardly a humane one).
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If electricity is created by electrons, is morality created by morons?
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(No Subject)
Report Commentby Legal Eagle @ 11:18am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
If we are being accurate here, he didn't kill at all.
ditto :+1
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Society's rules
Report Commentby gmarie @ 12:00pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I must point out that many of our rules come straight out of the scriptures. I.E. "Thou shalt not kill" "Thou shalt not steal", etc. They have been handed down to us from God. We are not animals. We do not think like animals. We should live a higher law than animals.
ditto :+13
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Implication worse than the offense
Report Commentby Vinney @ 9:55am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I think when they say that the impliation of the registry is worse than the offense, they are referring to the 19 year old dude that hooked up with a 17 year old chick, and got busted and prosecuted for it. He then has to register as a sex offender for the rest of his life. That, IMO, is an injustice dealt by the justice system.
I doubt the Justices think being on the list for abusing a 9 year old is worse than the act.
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60% of the time it works everytime
disagree :-4
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Vinney
Report Commentby Hillbilly @ 10:13am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Anybody 19 that gets hooked up with a 17 year old isn't going to be put on the list unless he does something wrong. It is not against the law to be "hooked" with a 17 year old when you are 19, read the laws.
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A simple way to take measure of a country is to look how many want in... And how many want out!!!
ditto :+2
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OK, Hillybilly
Report Commentby Vinney @ 10:28am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Since you think you're so smart, when did it become legal for a 19 year old to hook up with a 17 year old?
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60% of the time it works everytime
split vote :0
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(No Subject)
Report Commentby Legal Eagle @ 10:41am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Since at least 1998. Check the statute.
ditto :+2
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Right. 1998.
Report Commentby Vinney @ 10:48am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Not that Hillybilly knew that...
That is my point. People were 19 and hooking up with 17 year olds before 1998, and are on that registry for that very crime (I know a dude), and (IMO) that just isn't right. I can't imagine the purpose of the registry to include those such people, and yet it does.
Having that said, I think the registry is beneficial to the community for the most part, and provides a great way for people to be aware of, and keep their children away from, people like Steven Briggs.
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60% of the time it works everytime
split vote :0
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(No Subject)
Report Commentby Legal Eagle @ 11:22am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
While I have no verifiable information on your friend, the "dude" on the list, I view with skepticism that if such a person exists and is on "the list", that he is there only because he had sex with a 17 year old when he was 19.
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An aquaintance, rather
Report Commentby Vinney @ 11:38am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I wouldn't call him my "friend".
The parents of the girl found out and weren't happy and notified police. Once notfied, they had to bring charges against him. Since both of them admitted to having sex, and consent wasn't the issue, he was doomed if the prosecuters took it to trial. To save everyone time and money, they offered him a plea bargain where he admitted to unlawful sexual conduct with a minor, and got only community service. It was, none the less, a guilty conviction and addition of his name to the registry.
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60% of the time it works everytime
disagree :-1
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Correct
Report Commentby Muttiof4 @ 12:12pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I personally know a man in Draper with this wrap. The parents were mad and prosecuted. He was 19, she was 17. They are now married! How's that one to tick off the parents. This is where our laws over-step their bounds. When you're talking about a 9 year old that should be prosecutable under anyone's definition of the law.
split vote :0
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They are right
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 10:47am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
If the two in question are within 4 years of each other in age, then statutory rape laws do not apply.
So even a 21 yo can have sex with a 17 yo and not be put on this list....assuming it was consenual.
insightful :+6
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Sort of
Report Commentby Vinney @ 10:54am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
the 4 year rule applies to kids who are at least 14, but not 16. Once they are 16, it is 10 years.
http://www.usu.edu/saavi/pdf/utcc_sexual_offenses.pdf
But the 4 and 10 year rule only went into effect in 1998. Before then, 17 and under were jail bait for 18 and older, no matter what. I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you guys can't be that short sighted to think that people over 18 have only been hooking up with people younger than 18 since after 1998.
My point here is, is that there ARE in fact people that were 18 having sex with their 17 year old boyfriend/girlfriend that have to register as sex offenders because they were convicted before 1998. The law was not retro-active, it did not overturn guilty sentences.
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60% of the time it works everytime
split vote :0
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fascinating
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 11:02am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
ty for the insite.
As for the retroactive laws....I believe that is just how law works.
On the corrolary, People who break a law before it was considered illegal aren't punished at all. They are not retroactively punished either. So it does go both ways.
However, I do agree with you that the specifics of this list DO need more attention.
We recognize the difference between murder and manslaughter.
Why can't we recognize the difference between a mistake and a maliscious sexual attack?
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Question?
Report Commentby Utah 101 @ 11:43am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I believe the sex offender list requirements became law in the mid 90's (95' or 96'). I don’t know if this is true or not.
Therefore, if you were convicted of a crime prior to this registry being law are you still required to register?
And, if the rules changed in 98', as you mention above, the only people on this list that meet your description would have had to be convicted between when the registry became law (95?) and 1998. Is this correct as well?
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(No Subject)
Report Commentby Vinney @ 11:59am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I'm not certain on this one, but I think the date of your conviction has nothing to do with if you have to register or not. I'm pretty sure they made everyone convicted of sexual crimes, no matter when, register.
I don't believe the registry was created to start tracking offenders, but to make a comprehensive list of offenders for the purpose of public knowledge and safety. Leaving off offenders convicted before the creation of the registry just wouldn't make sense. If they did it that way, can you imagine how angry someone would be if their kid was molested by a past offender, and that could have been prevented if only they made past offenders register? Yeah... I'm pretty sure the registry is for all offenders.
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60% of the time it works everytime
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(No Subject)
Report Commentby Utahlife @ 2:47pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
No, people convicted prior are not on the list.
ex post facto law (retroactive law) is banned by the US constitution.
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When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross
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(No Subject)
Report Commentby Utahlife @ 2:53pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Sorry, I was wrong here. Funny I know some people who are not on the list in Utah for things done 20 years ago so I just assumed. How do they decide who stays on the list and who dosn't?
Quoted from Wikipedia "not all laws with ex post facto effects have been found to be unconstitutional. One current U.S. law that has an ex post facto effect is the Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act of 2006. This law, which imposes new registration requirements on convicted sex offenders, gives the U.S. Attorney General the authority to apply the law retroactively.[1] The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Smith v. Doe (2003) that forcing sex offenders to register their whereabouts at regular intervals and the posting of personal information about them on the Internet does not violate the constitutional prohibition against ex post facto laws, because compulsory registration of offenders who completed their sentences before new laws requiring compliance went into effect does not constitute a punishment.[2]
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When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross
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Utahlife
Report Commentby Wolfman @ 5:12pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Misdemeanors offences are only required to register for 10 years after getting out of jail or prison. Many offences are plead down to misdemeaners for many different reasons. Usually shoddy case work or unreliable witnesses. Sometimes the person is innocent and cannot prove it. Guilty until proven innocent?
I find it funny we should call for the death of these freaks even if they did not kill and we do not call for manditory death sentances for murder? I personally believe if the child was hurt or anyone was killed they should recieve the death penalty and all others should be registered.
My opinion.
ditto :+1
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Hillbilly
Report Commentby KeggMcMuff @ 12:02pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Some of the teens involved in the incident in Davis co involving inappropriate pictures sent via their phones might have to register with the sex offender site. These are kids who are currently under 18 and will have to register for at least, I believe 5 years.
Although I support the sex offender registry, I believe it does need to be modified. Those individuals not committing serious offenses should not have to register. As far as this guy is concerned, I feel like he committed the offensive he should have to live with it. Perhaps he should have thought twice before forcing himself on a 9 year old girl. I doubt she was able to simply erase the incident from her mind.
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Yes it does!
Report Commentby Jon V. @ 7:40pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Just because the laws are written doesn't mean they are followed. I know someone that went to prison for this and it was all because the girl cried rape because she was afraid her parents would ground her if they found out she had been having sex for over 6 months with this guy. They were dating and went to the same school. Sometimes the laws are there but they aren't always followed.
ditto :+11
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How about this idea?
Report Commentby I Can't Be Serious @ 10:09am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
You can get yourself off the registry after you have your private parts removed and a tatoo on your forehead that says "Sex Offender".
And you can't wear a hat.
Did I mention we will use garden shears and no anesthesia?
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I think, therefore, I pay taxes.
disagree :-10
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Because
Report Commentby I troll you even when you @ 10:18am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Its unconstitutional to be Punished Twice and if the sentence is for 5 years with 3 years probation then after you get out of prison do your 3 years you get 10 years to life on the web page. Even if you never do any thing wrong again..
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This is my 5th name on this board.
ditto :+7
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"Punished Twice"
Report Commentby Utah 101 @ 10:44am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Sex offenders are never “Punished Twice” for the same offence. The original sentence (one time) may include multiple things including time in prison, time already served, registering as a sex offender, restitution and probation requirements.
Using your logic we could never send someone to prison and also require they serve probation time.
ditto :+7
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(No Subject)
Report Commentby Masio @ 10:47am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
It's all part of the same sentence. Not being punished twice. There are just certain conditions to the punishment. It's sick that there even has to be a punishment for this kind of crime, because IT SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN!!!
ditto :+4
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Not punished twice
Report Commentby firediver33 @ 10:48am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
The sentence would have been handed down as 5 years with 3 years probation and having to register on the sexual offender list. This is not being punished twice but it is the one sentence handed down, it would only be double jepardy if he was retryed on the original charge after the original trial.
ditto :+2
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Punished Twice?
Report Commentby Wake-up-and-smell-the-coffee @ 11:30am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
How do you figure twice?
Being listed on the sex offender registry is not an afterthought, it is part of parcel of the original punishment - it is part of the original sentence for the crime he committed.
Serving time in prison, may have been part of that punishment or sentences as well, just as many people many have to do community service after serving time or paying a fine, or may have to report to a probation officer for a period of months or even years after being released from prison. That is not being punished twice - - it is simply part of the overall punishment for the crime.
People convicted of felonies may give up certain of their rights, such as the right to vote, even after they've been released from prision or otherwise been punished in your limited sense of the definition.
We take a away those rights (sometimes permanently) as part of their punishment, because of the extreme nature of their crime.
We place people like this on a sex offender registry, so that the public is always aware of what this person did to someone else's child. That person committed the crime, they are responsible, and they will suffer the consequences. If this guy felt that the consequences more severe that the crime itself, then he shouldn't have committed the crime to begin with.
I'm sick and tired of listening to criminals complain that THEY don't think they should be punished, or should not be punished as severely as society deems necessary. I doubt very seriously that this man cared much for how severely he affected the little 9-year-old girl he molested, or how severely he violated her innocence and her rights.
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Just my opinion...
ditto :+4
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Sex offender registry
Report Commentby Ernie Woo @ 11:32am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
is part of one punishment. Prison, probation, and registration. One punishment, not three.
Besides, three punishments aren't enough.
ditto :+3
(show comment)
I still think
Report Commentby Afwife @ 12:10pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
they should stop wasting time and just kill them all...
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kill em
Report Commentby Blair A. @ 12:53pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I think it should be a capitol offense (death penality) for doing anything sexual to or with a kid under the age of 10.
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Blair A.
Report Commentby Wolfman @ 7:45pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
A ten year old has more rights to justice than an eleven year old?
How about anyone who hurts a child Under 16 or commits any murder gets death?
ditto :+1
(show comment)
True, but
Report Commentby Mrs. claus @ 12:24am - Fri Apr 4th, 2008
Not everyone on the sex offender registry list is a pedophile or rapist. Some have done nothing more than been accused and convicted for trying to touch a womans breast...without actually touching it! Or an 18 year old boy having sex with a 16 year old girl...consensual! Although I do agree with the reasoning behind the list, there needs to be some discretion as to who is being put on it. I think ALL pedophiles and rapists should be on it, but there are also many whose being on the registery is worse than the actual offense itself. I think each judge should be able to decide whether or not the person should be on the list, and not just have it come part-and-parcel with the name of the crime.
split vote :0
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There shouldn't be any rights for sickos like this!!
Report Commentby Theonehewants @ 12:56pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Huh you ain't lying!!! GET OVER IT BUDDY!! You lost all rights and freedom because of what you did. Don't cry around about it now!! Suffer the consequences of your actions!! You are lucky to even be alive right now after what you did buddy.
ditto :+28
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Exactly
Report Commentby Cody O. @ 9:05am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Get a life- who says you deserve any rights- what about the 9 year old little girl who lost her rights to an adult?How about the innocence that was lost and can never be regained?When you make a choice like he did as an adult to violate a child- he voluntarily gave up his rights.I am still wondering why we even allow these people freedom or life?
ditto :+20
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Rights
Report Commentby David C. @ 9:17am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I think this guy should get his rights back, when the little girl gets her innocence back that he took. Until she stops having to deal with it, he shouldn't have to stop dealing with it. To the slime bag: be greatful for the registry, its a lot less invasive than what I would do to you for your crimes!!
huh? :-9
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And the loss of your own innocence...
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 9:55am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Would give the girl back hers?
Haven't enough people lost their innocence already?
disagree :-7
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To the "huh"ers
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 10:11am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I'll expound. I'm NOT defending this man.
I'm bringing up a point about the vengeance and vigilantism am I seeing throughout many comments.
Is it idle talk to make ourselves feel better even though we can legally do nothing?
Or do we really wish to take a man's life over this?
If the latter is the case, I am posing the question.....does it help?
Serious replies welcome. :)
troll :-1
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(No Subject)
Report Commentby Rollin S. @ 10:17am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
The story of the Count of Monte Cristo tells us it is impossible to create justice on more injustice. I respect your point but the unanswerable still has to be held to account. It's quite the quandry.
ditto :+6
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The registry isn't to punish the offender...
Report Commentby Snowgrl @ 11:18am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
The purpose of the registry is to protect other children. Sex offense is one of the hardest to rehabilitate and has one of the highest re-offense rates. Knowing that, it is the responsible thing for not only the people living around the offender but the offender himself. It makes neighbors more cautious about their childrens interactions with the neighbor and helps the offender not be in a position to reoffend.
Imagine the scenario: a convicted child molester marries a woman with small children, conceals his past so she doesn't know about it and then is living in a house with these children. She doesn't suspect a problem so she allows him to watch the kids while she goes to a school PTA meeting or the grocery store. How long will this man be able to resist the temptation and opportunity he has now placed himself in? Those children will become victims too. And then they will have friends and the step dad offender may be more than willing to have these kid's friends sleep over. More victims. With the registry, even if the woman married the man and put her children through a life of he!! living with him, at least the parents of these kids' friends have a fighting chance to know that danger lurks in that house.
It isn't about vengeance. It is about protecting innoncent children from the likely reoffense of convicted offenders.
(show comment)
Vigilante vs. concerned citizen
Report Commentby WiseGuy @ 12:08pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
It is not vigilante-ism to exercise my right of free speech and state that I disagree with the penalty which society has set for one offense or another. I personally believe that if there is only a single capitol crime in our society, it should be imposed on sexual offenders. But, unless I go out and start enforcing my personal belief, I am not a vigilante. If I agitate for change and a large enough segment of society shares my views for it to become law, then I still cannot enforce it...because I am not a law enforcement official. That's the line.
But, watching the law enforcement officers doing their jobs would be good enough for me.
Oh- and if it's the law, it's not vengence, it's "paying one's debt to society".
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If electricity is created by electrons, is morality created by morons?
offtopic :-1
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Agreed
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 1:04pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I was specifically addressing several comments testifying what they would do to this man if they had the chance.
Phillosophically speaking, you have raised some exellent points to think about.
Personally, I'm not sure if I would put Murder and Sexual offence on the same level.
I'm still deciding.
On the one hand, I understand the irreversible damage.
On the other, I've been taught that the only unforgivable act is murder.
I was just hoping this forum would be a good place to discuss the issue rather than just being a venting place for impulse reaction.
ditto :+1
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Speaking personally in return...
Report Commentby WiseGuy @ 2:01pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
...then, personally, I would like to see our entire justice system change focus from "rehabilitative" to "punitive"...I believe in first attempting to discourage crime, rather than in punishing for it; but the best way to discourage someone from a crime is to create an almost certain probability of a horrible punishment for doing it.
Knowing that, currently, a criminal has a fairly good chance of not being caught, of not being prosecuted if caught, of not being convicted if prosecuted, of not being harshly sentenced if convicted, and of not serving the full sentence if all of the above takes place, is hardly a deterrent to a person contemplating a crime.
So, (personally), I believe that the law should be punitive in its sentencing and prosecution, and that after the full sentence is filled, THEN we can worry about rehabilitating the ex-con...unless the punitive penalty was death. Choosing the crime should mean choosing the penalty – a clear and inevitable penalty – in the mind of every person in our society.
I read an article earlier written by a lawyer concerned about the legality of using hidden cameras to watch her nanny's interaction with her child...and I couldn't understand why she wouldn't want the nanny to know she was watching! The focus seemed to be on punishing the nanny after she abused the child, rather than in preventing the child from being abused.
THAT seems to smell of vengeance.
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If electricity is created by electrons, is morality created by morons?
offtopic :-1
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You are officially
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 2:21pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
one of my favorite posters.
I can't garantee I agree with everything....I'm still deciding.
But the logic and insight with which you write is simply a pleasure to read.
In specific response, I'd say that prevention and punative systems have their merrits, but must be kept in check if we claim to live in a "free society" where you are "innocent until proven guilty".
Under this phillosophy, punishment of the convicted is our only alternative as you mentioned.
This is simply part of the risks of a free society. When we CHOSE to be free, we CHOSE the consequence of that decision (just as criminals choose their sentence).
One of the consequences we accepted is that bad things are going to happen to good people.
I believe that is why forgiveness is so important. It is the only way to ensure freedom or any sense of happiness despite the tragedy embedded into free culture by nature.
split vote :0
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Forgiveness is akin to homicide...
Report Commentby WiseGuy @ 2:59pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
...in that it is a different quality when practiced by society rather than by the individual.
When an individual commits homicide, it is murder. When society imposes the penalty of homicide (according to law of course), it is a penalty.
When practiced by the individual, forgiveness is a matter of ethics and (according to many) a virtue. When practiced by society, forgiveness is corruption and is unjust.
PEOPLE as individuals may choose to forgive a criminal; society does not have such an option available to it.
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If electricity is created by electrons, is morality created by morons?
offtopic :-2
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/applause
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 3:18pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I have never heard it put that way.
I think I have just been given some MAJOR help in taking some definative stances.
"scholar and gentlemen" don't do you justice, good sir.
insightful :+2
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(No Subject)
Report Commentby Babette @ 3:40pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Forgiveness is very important. Many do things as teenagers that simple maturity will later prevent. Sometimes it comes with maturity, which is why adults make the rules. Unfortunately, not everyone grows beyond the selfishness of childhood.
I feel that punishment must fit the crime. The criminal must make recompense to society. The very nature of some crimes make this very difficult. How do you give a murder victim their life back, or a child her innocence?
I feel that forgiveness from society comes after society is satisfied that the offender is truly repentant, and has paid sufficiently for their crime. We must make one punishment for one crime, lest prejudice or favoritism enter into meeting out punishment. In order to not allow emotion rule, we appoint a third party (judge).
Having said that, forgiveness from the victim must come immediately, lest they fall victim to hate and anger. I don't know how well I would do with that. I'm grateful to never have been faced with that dilemma.
ditto :+22
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Our rights dont matter
Report Commentby K D. @ 9:06am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
The only person’s right that is important is the lawbreakers? It’s the same story every convict tries to tell.
ditto :+21
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In my opinion
Report Commentby HDSN @ 9:06am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
this child sexual abuser is lucky he's alive to complain.
The more he complains,the more attention he draws to himself and his ill deeds.
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Because I said so,that's why.
ditto :+20
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In my opinion
Report Commentby Brady C. @ 9:11am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
He shouldn't be alive. Yes he did make a mistake but in my opinion its not worth taking the chance he will make the same mistake again. If it would have been my kid he would hope he was in jail because he wouldn't be save out in the open.
ditto :+24
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How dare he complain about "his" rights.
Report Commentby Pippi @ 9:07am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
You hit that right on the head, Lurkin. A little girl's life was permanently marked by his disgusting, selfish, actions.
Now his life can be permanently marked, too. And he's still got it easier then she does!
ditto :+10
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yeah kinda...
Report Commentby Serenity_May @ 9:08am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
he is a bad example for loss of rights. I would say that it is sad for the 19 year old on the list who had relations with his 17 year old girlfriend and ended up in a system that can ruin his life because even though in this situation it was consensual the state had to prosecute. It makes it hard to get jobs and housing.
ditto :+7
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Serenity_May
Report Commentby xmirage2kx @ 9:19am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
There are cases like that out there (I have a friend who is in that boat) but well over 95% of the people on that list deserve far worse than what they got.
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Every law that is passed is another freedom that is LOST.
ditto :+3
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I agree
Report Commentby Serenity_May @ 9:22am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Maybe there should be a way to petition your name on the list if you are a true creep then you stay on the list if you are deemed not a threat to society they you are allowed to be removed from the list.
ditto :+1
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The problem with that is
Report Commentby eotpr @ 11:14am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
those let out on probation are "deemed not a threat to society" and most ot them reoffend. Let's keep them on.
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then apparently
Report Commentby Serenity_May @ 12:20pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
our system is broken.
ditto :+1
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Our system is broken
Report Commentby Wolfman @ 6:17pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I really believe it is.
Poeple forget there are people who are just now being released from prison who were unjustly convicted of murder Ect. years ago. Some have spent many years in prison for no fault of thier own. There are sex offenders who are innocent also. This being said, how can you say someone diserves to be put to death for molesting a child when they may not be guilty. Plea bargans are made with innocents because they are threatened, by public defenders and prosocuters alike, with many years in prison.
There should be no plea bargans and a convicted murderer (beyond any doupt) should be given the death sentence. No question.
Sex offenders are a different story as there are many different levels of offense. Anyone who kills anyone should die for it. Anyone who molests a child and it is confessed or proven (beyond any doupt) should also recieve the death penalty.
Our courts say (beyond any reasonable doupt) I say (beyond any doupt). Dna a confession and other more modern evidence should be present before any death sentance is given. We cannot kill because someone said he did it. Some people lie and are not victems at all.
ditto :+4
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Thank you..
Report Commentby thummper @ 9:38am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I just wanted to say thank you to Serenity and xmirage2kx for bringing to the forefront the problem with registry. This is a valid point. There is a huge difference between molesting a 9 yr old child and having consentual sex with a 15-17 year old. The problem is that the State does not have the resources to do a case by case study of every sex offense that occurs. The problem I see is that the person who had sex with a 15-17 yr old is falling under the same type of stereotype of someone who molestes a 9 yr old.
although this may not be fair we do need to protect our children. What needs to happen is a better deffination of the offense on that persons individual profile. This would not take but a few minutes to type in when they first register.
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Smooches, Jenni
ditto :+2
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(No Subject)
Report Commentby Sportybabe @ 9:41am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
In Utah, that's not true for the 19 year old with the 17 year old, if both consent. Age of consent for a girl in Utah is 16. In order for it to be considered a sexual offense, the said boyfriend would have to be 8+ years older than the said girlfriend.
insightful :+2
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Sad but true...
Report Commentby boshey @ 10:46am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Actually the legal age for consent in Utah is 14, not 16. Pretty sick huh!
ditto :+1
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WRONG!!
Report Commentby thummper @ 12:02pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
boshey the legal age of consent in utah is 16 not 14. I do not know where you get your information from but it is wrong. Also in response to the 8 year difference this is not entirely true. If you are under the age of 18 your parents or the other parties parents can still press for an arrest.
To put it in terms I was once a young girl too and even at the age of 16 it was "cool" to be dating a guy in college. He has a car, can buy beer etc. I know that it is not right but I did know what I was doing. The problem is that once you are labeled a sex offender there is a stigma that comes with that label. People automaticaly think that you have injured or hurt a little CHILD. A teenage girl or boy is not a little child. Yes they think that they know what sex is about and everything that goes with that choice but they do not. We need to fix the problem and have maybe a different type of registry for those that have had this happen.
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Smooches, Jenni
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Wrong
Report Commentby Vinney @ 12:14pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
The legal age of consent in Utah is 14. They even have seperate laws for those who are 14-15 than for kids who are 16-17.
See:
http://www.usu.edu/saavi/pdf/utcc_sexual_offenses.pdf
*I'm not certain on when the age of 14 became legal, it may have been in 1998, or it may have been before then. I do know, though, that for quite some time, you could marry at the age of 14 in Utah with parental consent.
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60% of the time it works everytime
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In addition
Report Commentby Babette @ 3:47pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I have a friend who had a 40 yo neighbor having relations with her 15 yo daughter. The girl had to be the one pressing charges, and she wasn't willing to (she was in love!). The mother wanted to, but couldn't under the law. Therefore, no charges brought against the sicko, it was considered consensual.
ditto :+2
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(No Subject)
Report Commentby Legal Eagle @ 9:46am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I'd like proof that this has happened in Utah. The situation you describe is not a crime. For a person to be guilty of a crime for having consentual sex with a 17 year old, that person must be at least 10 years older than the "victim".
huh? :-2
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(No Subject)
Report Commentby Sportybabe @ 9:56am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
But it's 8 years older... I have a boyfriend who is 6 years older than me, and we started dating when I was 16. His mom worked in the courts, and looked up every law just in case someone tried something against us. The police could have arrested him, but they couldn't prosecute him because he is within the 8 year limit.
huh? :-1
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(No Subject)
Report Commentby Legal Eagle @ 10:03am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
You don't make sense. If they couldn't prosecute him becuase no law was broken, then they couldn't have arrested him either.
I wouldn't trust a clerk in the courts to know the law either. She obviously didn't find the right law or didn't read it correctly. See Utah Code 76-5-401.2.
Removed By Moderator
Report Commentby I troll you even when you @ 10:25am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
ditto :+5
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He needs to be sterilized
Report Commentby Archie Bunker @ 9:11am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Anybody found guilty without a doubt of sexually molesting youths should be sterilized.
Liberals have allowed this creep to feel that he can demand this type of insane crap.
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“Your Country is Dying from Political Correctness“ www.FightPC.net
ditto :+17
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Not just sterilized,
Report Commentby Jack Mormon @ 9:14am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
More like removed from the gene pool or complete removal of his genitelia.
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Don't be a pimple on the a__ of progress
ditto :+3
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Liberals?
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 9:38am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Name ONE liberal that did that.
yeah.....stereotyping proves your point.
ditto :+5
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I suggest
Report Commentby CT @ 10:03am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
we execute child sex offenders. That will get them off the sex offender registry.
ditto :+3
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How ironic
Report Commentby badfeet @ 10:06am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
He should have a large red "M" tattooed on his forhead for child molester
ditto :+4
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What rights are we talking about here?
Report Commentby a.grammaticus @ 10:18am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
The man claims that the registry violates his Constitutional rights. Nowhere in the article does it specify exactly which right or rights he refers to, or even which Constitution (State or Federal).
This is one more instance of ignorant public discourse, and uninformed reporting.
ditto :+1
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I believe....
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 10:26am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
He is referring to the constitutional right to face your accuser.
If someone is looking up his deeds on the web without him present to defend himself, he is claiming that is a violation of this right.
Personally....I think it's a stretch.
ditto :+3
(show comment)
Good insight...
Report Commentby a.grammaticus @ 10:34am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
In trying to decide which "right" was claimed to be violated, since KSL chose not to identify it, I hadn't thought of that one.
However, that right was granted at the time of trial. He has already been adjudicated guilty of the crime. People who see him on a website are not accusing him of a crime. Having his crime posted on a website is in substance no different than reporting on court cases in the newspaper - it is an informational service.
Does a convicted criminal have the right to defend himself against everyone who reads about his deeds in the newspaper? Nonsense.
ditto :+1
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That is
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 10:49am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Probably the conclusion the state supreme court will come to as well.
....and then the US supreme court eventually.
ditto :+1
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his rights to defend himself
Report Commentby Chance T. @ 11:21am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
were carried out in court, he is convicted.
After your convicted it goes to public information.
The public has a right to defend itself against you.
His rights are in tact, he defended himself, or his attorney did in court, now his conviction is public record. no rights violated, no case for him.
Toss it out, stop wasting tax dollars to fight crap like that.
Its beyond a stretch, its a waste of time and money that could be used for something worth while.
disagree :-7
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Because
Report Commentby I troll you even when you @ 10:20am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Its unconstitutional to be Punished Twice and if the sentence is for 5 years with 3 years probation then after you get out of prison do your 3 years you get 10 years to life on the web page. Even if you never do any thing wrong again..
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This is my 5th name on this board.
ditto :+3
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Can you please reference that...
Report Commentby a.grammaticus @ 10:25am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
in the Constitution?
I believe what you refer to is double jeopardy, and your understanding of it is obviously flawed. Double jeopardy is a procedural defense against a defendant being TRIED twice for the same crime - not punished. A judge can apply as many punishments as deemed appropriate to the crime.
ditto :+10
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Loser.
Report Commentby Britney_Ann @ 9:03am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Maybe instead of crying about being on a sex offender list- he should stop abusing little girls- then he wouldn't have to worry about it.
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britpooh02@hotmail.com
ditto :+7
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Actually....
Report Commentby Emoemoemo @ 9:18am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
It's a little late for him to stop abusing little girls. He's already been convicted and put on the list. Not much else he can do about it except complain...
ditto :+11
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Though...
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 9:40am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
This brings up an interesting point....
Why do we have a sex offender web list....
But no murder list?
Or no theft list?
If you're going to post people crimes on the web for all to see for their protection....
Why aren't we posting them all?
split vote :0
(show comment)
preventative measure
Report Commentby Jeremy G. @ 11:01am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
It is there so anyone interested in knowing can be aware of where offenders reside. I used it when looking for a new home because I have 4 children and I wanted to know who my neighbors were.
No murder list because there aren't many living among us. Most are detained and the rest number so few that it isn't prudent to have a list.
My guess as far as thieves go is that thieves generally do not pose a risk to others as far as bodily injury goes and they are not deemed predatory toward fellow humans.
Sex offenders for the most part are a continuing direct threat to others and to children in a majority of cases. There are also so many of them that they are everywhere.
ditto :+1
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(No Subject)
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 11:05am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
"My guess as far as thieves go is that thieves generally do not pose a risk to others as far as bodily injury goes and they are not deemed predatory toward fellow humans."
Unless they are robbing your house?
What about a list of everyone on paroll in your neighborhood for any reason then?
The latest stats I saw is that 1/5 people have been arrested for SOMETHING.....
Wouldn't you want to know who and why?
It seems a bit silly to me to only single out one particular crime.
(show comment)
wow
Report Commentby Jeremy G. @ 4:13pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
1/5 is a sobering number.
I only generalized with regard to thieves because there will always be exceptions. Exceptions in this case being violent thieves.
A list of all parollees would be interesting to be sure. However, unlike a pedophile, the large majority of the names on a parollee list pose no imminent physical threat to me or my kids and I believe that is why there is no registry for them.
disagree :-2
(show comment)
Thiefs, sure, murderers, not so sure...
Report Commentby Emoemoemo @ 11:19am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I think most murders are crimes of passion. That is, I don't think most murderers re-offend. Sure, there are some psychopaths, but there are a lot of just one-offs.
As for thieves, that would also be useful. I think thieves do re-offend a lot. I don't care whether it is the car thief, the 7-11 6-pack thief, or the white collar 'steal $180 million from investors" thief.
ditto :+9
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nobody cares..
Report Commentby young one @ 9:04am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
what you think fag, your a sex offender. maybe you should of thought of what kind of consequences would come by doing something so perverse! i wish they would make wear a sign that said "i abused a 9 year old girl!"
ditto :+10
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Tattoo
Report Commentby Cody O. @ 9:10am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I saw a comment yesterday that said they should tattoo "Molester" or "Sex Offender" on the perp's forehead.It inspires consideration.If abusers of children had to walk around for the rest of their lives with a blatant sign of who they are and what they have done- they might think twice about making those choices to begin with.
In the book THE SCARLETT LETTER- I thought a Bright red A was a little much- but in this case, I would vote for a bright red M in a minute!
ditto :+11
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Tattoo...marvelous idea.
Report Commentby Pippi @ 9:14am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Too bad the ACLU and other organizations who are more concerned about a criminal's well-being then the community's would NEVER allow that to pass.
Maybe communities should just start applying that tattoo to each convicted creep's forehead.
I'll be first in line.
funny :+2
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"I'll be first in line."
Report Commentby Ernie Woo @ 9:18am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Why do you want to get in the tattoo line?
funny :+3
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Heck
Report Commentby eotpr @ 11:59am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
It would probably keep the neighbor's kids off of his lawm
funny :+10
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Maybe ACLU lawyers need a tattoo as well.
Report Commentby Pidklesdaddy @ 9:19am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
It could say "I support sex offenders."
split vote :0
(show comment)
The reason
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 9:50am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
We don't do that is because tattoos are permanent and we believe in the human potential for change.
Even the LDS faith has the idea of "change of heart".
"Forgiveness is divine" is at the heart of most religions....not just the ACLU.
Punishment is meant to be temporary. Even our system of punishment is called the "Rehabilitation system" or the "correctional system".
The only time we believe in permanent punishment is when we have deemed the criminal has no chance of change or is too dangerous to risk it. In those cases....we end their life.
So if molestation is worthy of permanent punishment, then that is how we should handle it.
But if we allow these people back into society, we must be willing to believe that someone can turn their life around and divy out temporary punishment.
The victim of this crime still has a chance to be happy after this. It will just be (regrettably) very hard. That being the case, I have NO problem with making happiness equally as difficult for the offender (if not moreso).
But both should have the CHANCE to move on.
ditto :+3
(show comment)
and
Report Commentby csiny @ 10:25am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
the bible also says to my words- your better off tying a stone to your neck, and being thrown in the ocean, then to harm a child.
You can forgive, you can want him in your neighborhood- you can even let him babysit (if he says hes cured) I could care less.
If you believe people can be cured from this - your just plain wrong. The only cure is to cut it off, or to kill the perp, or to put him prison for life.
But anyone who harms a child in that way deserves nothing.
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“All creatures great and small, GOD created one and all.“
ditto :+4
(show comment)
What CAN be cured then?
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 10:32am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Will an alcoholic ever NOT want a drink?
Why have AA then?
Will a thief NEVER want to steal again?
Shall we ban thieves from ever entering a store?
Will a murderer never have a thought to kill again?
Shall we initiate capital punishment for all convicted murderers?
I never said I believed people can be "cured". I said I believe in "a change of heart". Which means people gain a TRUE desire to cast off the actions despite the impulse. They learn control...like humans do. I DO believe that is attainable. I also believe that potential is why we are told to forgive.
I'm certainly not saying to NOT punish such vial acts. I'm just saying that there comes a point where the punishment should fullfill the obligation....or just kill him and be done with it.
(btw....where is that passage in the bible? I don't believe I've ever seen it. If it's Old Testament, you're going to have a hard time making it stick in modern christianity.)
(show comment)
again
Report Commentby csiny @ 11:28am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
"...it is better that a millstone be hung around your neck and have you drown in the depth of the seas." Christ taught that punishment for crimes against children should be death.
So, it IS Christian to demand the death penalty for pedophiles and child murderers.
My guess is that it would happen less often if we did kill these scumbags.
were arent talking, stealing a piece of candy then learning better of it as you grow up. Were talking someonw who is attracted to little kids? how is that cured. Some of them think its perfectly normal to be attracted to kids. People say we cant change our sexual pref. so why or how can we change someones desire for a child.
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“All creatures great and small, GOD created one and all.“
split vote :0
(show comment)
Once again....
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 11:36am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Where did I say "cure"?
I said control.
That CAN be learned.
split vote :0
(show comment)
ill look that up for you...
Report Commentby csiny @ 11:35am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
its a scripture I take very serious. so here it is again. Children are my world, I would die for them, kill for them, and I would fight for them over a scum bad pervert anyday of the week.
"...it is better that a millstone be hung around your neck and have you drown in the depth of the seas." Christ taught that punishment for crimes against children should be death.
So, it IS Christian to demand the death penalty for pedophiles and child murderers.
My guess is that it would happen less often if we did kill these scumbags.
I dont have my bible with me so give me a few to look it up for you ok.
People can change many things in life. But there has never been any proof that you can change a sexual monster.
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“All creatures great and small, GOD created one and all.“
ditto :+1
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I appreciate
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 11:40am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Your willingness to look it up. :)
I'd like to see the context.
And I realize I'm a bit of an idealist.
But I believe everyone was put here for a reason.
The fact that people such as this squander that reason should not incite rage.....but a sense of tragic loss for BOTH of them.
They are both children to somebody.
(show comment)
bad example
Report Commentby Babette @ 3:56pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
My mother once said to me that everyone has a purpose. Sometimes that purpose is to be a bad example.
ditto :+1
(show comment)
MARK 9:42
Report Commentby csiny @ 11:41am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
if its the old testament, new testament.. unless of course you dont believe in it because it doesnt suit your life.
This is one that is timeless. Children are Gods greatest treasures, they are innocent and if the killing (state killing) is not used for child abusers it really shouldnt be used for anything.
we should just rehab them all and send em home.
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“All creatures great and small, GOD created one and all.“
split vote :0
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You know what's coming
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 12:07pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
"if its the old testament, new testament.. unless of course you dont believe in it because it doesnt suit your life."
That is merely an attempt to pre-empt any argument. Particularly since you know what is coming.....and for good reason.
The majority of the Old testiment followed the Law moses with taught "An eye for an eye".
While Christ, on the other hand, taught to love those that revile against you.
Christ did not stone the aldulterist women even though adultery was looked on then ALMOST as badly as we view child abuse. But if you notice....he did not absolve her of her sins at the end either.
But he did give her another chance knowing perfectly that she may do it again.
Once again...I'm NOT saying to be "winpy" to these criminals. I'm saying that punishment should not be permanent if we are going to allow them back into society.
If we decide as a society that punishment SHOULD be permanent, then you don't need a tattoo. You need to remove them from society.
That is not something I have disagreed with if you will notice.
troll :-1
(show comment)
stupid enter button
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 12:13pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I didn't get to say....
Mark is new testament. But even then, you're cite is a bit out of context.
Christ was speaking of causing children to fall SPIRITUALLY ie convince them not to believe in Christ.
But that being said, we are still in more agreement than you think.
I have NO problem (as I just said) of capital punishment for the most hanous of molestation crimes.
I just said that if we allow them into society, the punishment should not be permanent.
Because by letting them rejoin society, we acknowledge that there is a chance for rehibilitation and contribution to society.
We cannot do that AND tattoo them.
It's too contridictary (sp?).
split vote :0
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im
Report Commentby csiny @ 12:28pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
so thankful we have you to tell us what the bible means, and how we are supposed to take it. You must know everything.
first you say old test so dont listen to it, now you say new test. But you clarify what Christ meant..glad you know that. It interpertaion to each person reading it- but on a whole- its very clear.
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“All creatures great and small, GOD created one and all.“
ditto :+1
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And I'm so thankfull
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 1:08pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
You've come to this discussion with the same respect I have tried to show you.
ditto :+2
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csiny
Report Commentby eotpr @ 12:02pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Can you cite the verse?
ditto :+2
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CSINY
Report Commentby eotpr @ 12:15pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
THANKS
split vote :0
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Yes its mark 9:42
Report Commentby csiny @ 12:19pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
but to some it shouldnt matter because it is the old testament.
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“All creatures great and small, GOD created one and all.“
ditto :+1
(show comment)
Mark
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 12:24pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Is new testament.
split vote :0
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ya thanks
Report Commentby csiny @ 12:31pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
pointing that out to me!
I figured it out on my own- just typed too fast...
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“All creatures great and small, GOD created one and all.“
ditto :+1
(show comment)
It's too late
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 1:21pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
You can't be cured. There is obviously no hope for you.
I submit you should be banned from the forums for your repugnant typos.
(and please don't take offense. I am, of course, just teasing you.)
ditto :+1
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Forgiveness VS Forgetting
Report Commentby Cody O. @ 10:59am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
An abused child carries the scar on their SOUL for their whole life-(Can personally attest to this as I am sure many others here can too)
Why should life be so easy for the perp years later- when it will always haunt the victim.Should they not live with some kind of heartache forever also?Plus- this permanent labeling also allows others the right to know and reminder to be defensive or protecting of themselves and their loved ones.
Their is a difference of forgiveness VS forgetting.While they are allowed to go on with their lives- for the safety of others-we should never forget.
AS an LDS member- I can say- that I have seen men come back to the church or be active after having these problems-And the church loves them and understands that it is a sickness and tries to welcome them back into the fold any way possible.BUT- Never at the risk to others.While they might be forgiven- they are not forgetting that they have a dangerous person present.THUS-we are warned ahead of time as members and the "man"/"woman" isn't allowed to just wander the halls- or leave for a potty break etc.The teachers and parents and sometimes even kids are warned- so they will know to be extra cautious.
A tattoo is permanent- but in the next life we believe all bodies will be perfect again- so the tattoo disappears.But we believe we will carry our emotions and knowledge with us- so a victim will still be trying to heal or gain closure after resurrection.Right?
I still cant say it is a lot to expect for our own protection from someone who has literally Tattooed another's soul for this life or longer.Forgiveness can be and is different than Forgetting.
split vote :0
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(No Subject)
Report Commentby Jeremy G. @ 11:11am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Very well said Cody!
troll :-4
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As an LDS member
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 11:14am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
You should read "The miracle of Forgiveness" by Spencer W. Kimbal.
He DIRECTLY controdicts your views on forgiveness vs. forgetting.
And as for "haunting memories"...
Though tragic, ALL wounds and memories fade with time. A tattoo doesn't.
The offender registry accomplishes the task of letting people IN THE RELEVANT AREA know about these gross acts.
A tattoo is simply unnecessary and cruel and unusual punishment.
We should not be rejoicing at the prospect of punishing a man - finding worse and worse ways to do it - we should be depressed that we have to punish someone for this kind of sickening act in the first place.
The definition of "mercy" is giving something to someone even though they do not deserve it.
Justice is the court's and God's.
This man clearly NEVER deserves anything ever again....
But after he has served his sentence, mercy should be given anyway...so that WE might receive it in turn.
.....as an LDS member anyway.
ditto :+2
(show comment)
??
Report Commentby mama2six @ 11:37am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
seems you are more for rights to those who offend than to the victim.
seems you think we can all live in happy land and love one another?
it is a nice concept- but with the world that way it is today-not very likely.
we have to protect ourselves and our children everywhere we go!not just next door or in our own neighborhood.
the Sex registry list is great- but it is only a small step-do I know what other steps to take- no- I dont have all the answers.but as harsh as tattooing seems (some people love it and do see it as even an inconvenience from what I see around town these days)
we need to be doing more somehow!
some offenders walk away and never register when they move.some actually commit the crime outside their neighborhood because the chances of getting caught are less.These are vicious and violent crimes many times.Sorry if we dont seem as forgiving as we should be or you want us to be(has been a while since I read the book you are so familiar with and telling Cody to read)How come they deserve so much understanding and love- when we will now be watching our backs forever.Not being able to let my kids walk home from school because of creeps exposing themselves and making lewd comments and gestures should end.Children are loving and accepting and innocent- if for no other reason than as a caution sign to them-it would be a great idea.
troll :-4
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I don't usually do this
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 11:52am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
But speaking purely religiously.....
"How come they deserve so much understanding and love- when we will now be watching our backs forever."
Because we have been commanded to.
Because BOTH of the individuals involved are children to him.
This is not about the tragic loss of one person's innocence.....but two.
The ONLY good that can come out of this tragedy is for US to learn something from it.
We CANNOT do that if we are more focused on making someone pay as much as we can simply to make ourselves feel better.
Punishment MUST be had for this person....absolutely.
But the punishment must NOT come at the cost of OUR OWN innocence.
That we have the ability to do this is what separates from him.
And who knows what you might remember of him after this life and you recall your relationship with him before this life?
Will you cry just for this girl then? Or for him as well after all is revealed?
Once again...this is a purely mormon reply. If you aren't religious....I don't have much of a case against your rage except to say that that same carnal instinct is what CAUSED this tragedy in the first place.
ditto :+1
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and
Report Commentby csiny @ 2:12pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I do believe in hell and spirit prison. I believe that GOD loves all his children equally, from
Hitler to dahmer BUT I completly believe with out any doubt, that his love and forgivness will not keep them from paying the price. His punishment will be swift and it will be binding.
God is all loving, but He will also smite you to hell if you choose to commit certain sins.
so Im not a religious scholor, and Im not completly elequent in my wording, it comes from the heart.
I will make mistakes, I sin, and I will be punished.
I will accept my sins ask for fogivness and then God can grant me that.
First these monsters need to own up- how many really do? they need to pay the price, ask for forgivness, proove them selves, and if paying the price is having your name on a registry or having a tattoo - so be it.
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“All creatures great and small, GOD created one and all.“
split vote :0
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thank you
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 2:28pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
for your words. They need not be eloquent. I crave insite beyond my own - not proof of worthiness.
I felt the sincerity of your words and I agree with so many of them.
My only caution as been on rageful, vengefull impulse - that we punish for greater good rather than to make ourselves feel better.
But my goal has never been to rob justice.
Only to say that to give forgiveness and mercy (often after a time) is justice for our own souls.
funny :+13
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How about the Target logo to their foreheads
Report Commentby Jack Mormon @ 9:15am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
That would give me something to aim at.
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Don't be a pimple on the a__ of progress
ditto :+5
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thanks, Jack.
Report Commentby All-American @ 9:17am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
(ROFL)
ditto :+1
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Honest question.....
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 10:01am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I seriously want to ask the crowd.....
Which is worse?
Molestation or Murder?
I only ask because I've seen MANY comments stating they would love to PERSONALLY kill these criminals.
So I phillisophically am intrigued to hear Vigilantism and/or murder is acceptable in this case.
Or even in general.....should molestation be considered by the courts to be worse than murder?
ditto :+3
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oh my gosh
Report Commentby csiny @ 10:30am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
who are you and who are you defending.
murder of an innocent person is wrong- state sanctioned deat is fine, self defense of you or your family is fine.
Child molesters are lower then pond scum and they can all burn before I would shed a tear.
Let them say sorry to God.
you are warped.
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“All creatures great and small, GOD created one and all.“
split vote :0
(show comment)
Where do you see
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 10:54am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
me defending anyone?
Asking which is worse is NOT asking which is more right.
But I ask you...
If you were to grab a gun, find this man, and shoot him in the head....
Do you believe you should have a worse punishment that this man should receive?
Do you believe you should have any punishment at all?
It's a phillosophical question.
Questions are a good thing, sir.
If ANYTHING positive is to come out of such horrible acts, it is that those who witness them can LEARN.
split vote :0
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Let me put this into perspective
Report Commentby Jack Mormon @ 11:54am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
For any sex offender that has done the following:
-Forcible Sex with a child
-Forcible Sodomy to a child
-Forcible sex to and adult,
-Rape and Murder
Anybody that falls into this category I would have not problem holding a gun to their head and pulling the trigger myself.
Now if they fell into the category of statutory rape or sex with a minor, think they should be punished as the judge seeth fit.
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Don't be a pimple on the a__ of progress
split vote :0
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So then....
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 12:17pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Why don't you?
ditto :+3
(show comment)
Yes
Report Commentby csiny @ 11:55am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I do believe molostation is more then or at least equal to murder. It is taking the innocence from a child. Im not saying I would run around hunting these perv- with a shoot to kill moto. Ill let the legal system do that. Do I beleieve the forfit their "normal" lives yes. Do I believe I have the right to know if a monster is living next to me - heck ya.!
And if I caught them in the act- I would kill them, and it would be defense.
listen - first im not aman)
2nd I was molested and you know something im 37 years old. ANd some of what happened didnt even begin to register to me until the last few years. It is a life long issue. It paved the way for me not to trust men, not to understand boundaries, and to have depression, anxiety and many other issues.
You can never give me back a normal child hood- ever!
my sentence is life. I have to learn and deal with it and although I can move forward- it will never be the same.
SO yes kill them all! 1 strike your out.
or put them away for life- I really dont care.
Ill leave it to God to forgive them, and Im sure his punisment will be much harsher than mans could ever be.
and for the context on the bible search- look it up your self and read it.
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“All creatures great and small, GOD created one and all.“
ditto :+5
(show comment)
Derbeste
Report Commentby Weez @ 10:47am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Yes, in my eyes molestation is worse than murder. A murdered victim will not have to relive what happened to them.(I do believe if you kill some one then you should also be killed) A child will have to relive what happened to them for the rest of thier lives. So to me that is far worse that being maurdered.
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weezer54
offtopic :-2
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Fair enough
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 10:59am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I'm not trying to calling anyone's opinion "right" or "wrong". I'm merely starting a dialogue. That's how humans learn from tragedy.
In this spirit, allow me to counter point.
A murder victim has no chance to move on and experience life despite challenges (whether that challenge be math or horrible memories). At least this victim has a chance.
But let us assume for a minute that molestation is, in fact, worse than murder.....
Would one of us, then, be justified in killing this man ourselves since the law is not punishing these criminals in line with murderers?
Should we be actively lobbying to change the law so that they do?
troll :-2
(show comment)
tatt!
Report Commentby csiny @ 12:11pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
You seem more worried about someones use of a tatt. And how its for life then you do molestation.
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“All creatures great and small, GOD created one and all.“
split vote :0
(show comment)
no no
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 12:19pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
That merely what sparked the dialogue.
And I think this dialogue is a good thing.
It gets us to really think about what we believe and why.
You can't punish someone without being able to explain that now can you? :)
split vote :0
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Btw...
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 12:20pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
You didn't answer my questions.
troll :-1
(show comment)
mabye
Report Commentby csiny @ 12:36pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
you should answer them for me.. you know a lot more about everything, and you know the correct interpertaion of the bible and how we are to use it.
Im really to p-o'd at you to even keep this going.
so please ask me each question slowly- so I understand them, Ill try to answer you.
read my posts. Ive set my position, and Ive given my reasons why. I dont need to convince you.
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“All creatures great and small, GOD created one and all.“
split vote :0
(show comment)
Convincing
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 1:12pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Was never the goal.
I came with honest respect and desire for discussion.
I gave my interpretations with class and an open mind.
I asked YOU to answer them because I wanted to hear YOUR opinion. I already know mine.
I'm sorry you don't value a perspective other than your own.
insightful :+2
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Derbeste
Report Commentby Wolfman @ 7:35pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
csiny Is a victom who refuses to let go of anger and and likely horrible pain.
You're last sentence is correct. I understand why!
When you murder you take the hole life. When you molest without murder you leave a mess behind, but that person has the ability to still raise children and have all or most of the joys of life. The survivor of this horror can, at will, have all the joys that god has provided for us here. Why let this filth win? You must rise above.
Anyone see the differance? Of course!
For me forgiveness can come when the murderer is given the death sentance. As I watched a murderer die I was able to forgive. I will not elaborate,sorry.
Let me post a question to all.
If you had a child that was taken would you rather the child was raped and killed or just raped? What should be the differance in punishment for the two different chrimes?
You send these molesters to prison and they learn that if they kill then there is noone left to tell!!
HHHHMMMMMMMMMM?
split vote :0
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the sad thing is
Report Commentby Sharpp @ 9:15am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Possible punishments have never been a deterant for these types of crimes. They obviously have lost control.
ditto :+5
(show comment)
That might be
Report Commentby budwa @ 9:29am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
because the punishments associated with certain types of crimes are never enforced.
troll :-2
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"fag"?
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 9:41am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
He molested a girl.
Why would you defame gays by associating them with this criminal?
ditto :+9
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How does...
Report Commentby B M. @ 9:06am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Someone who sexually abused a 9 year old defend themselves against that? I mean is there really a defense that could even come close to explaining why it was okay to commit such a crime? I am all for the registry and check it often as any responsible parent would to protech their children from this kind of D-Bag.
ditto :+7
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He Can't Defend Himself....???
Report Commentby TakeItEasy @ 9:08am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
That's what the lawyer was for at the trial. And "NO" lawyers are not allowed on the registry to object. They are only there if they are also Sex Offenders. You've been caught, now you have to let everyone know what a sicko you really are. You're just ticked off that they broadcast it and don't sweep it under the rug.
ditto :+3
(show comment)
Classy comments by all *rolls eyes*
Report Commentby Sharpp @ 9:13am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
But the reason for the registry isn't for the public flogging that you all enjoy, but rather it allows us to be aware of an offense by someoene that has a high probability of repeating. And protecting our families and children.
ditto :+4
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Exactly
Report Commentby TJones @ 9:41am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
What's left to defend? He's already been CONVICTED!
ditto :+11
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NO..........being a SEX OFFENDER IS
Report Commentby HoLyOne @ 9:09am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
unconstitutional and AGAINST THE LAW.......and they should STAY IN JAIL........that way the web WOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE.........NOW GO cry to someone who CARES......if you can find them
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I SPEAK FOR THE SILENT MAJORITY ~ AND WE HAVE SPOKEN ~ DO THE MORALLY RIGHT THINGS ~ PRAISE THE LORD ~ AMEN
ditto :+6
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Holy one,
Report Commentby Jack Mormon @ 9:16am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I have to aggree with you on this one. There is no place for this, and the Sex offender Registry is a benefit to society.
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Don't be a pimple on the a__ of progress
ditto :+13
(show comment)
To Scum Bag Briggs:
Report Commentby Topazz @ 9:10am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Your lucky you even get the chance to think about trying to defend yourself. If I, and I'm sure most people I know, had any say in what happened to you after abusing a 9 year old girl, or abusing any age female for that matter, you'd be on death row, if not dead already. You should not even be able to go free after doing what you did. You were obviously found guilty so now you can deal with being on the registry, boo hoo. That little girl has to live with what you did to her. What is unconstitutional is the fact that you get to live free from prison while this girl has to live with the fear of what you did. Loser!
ditto :+19
(show comment)
Wait a minute...
Report Commentby Wired @ 9:11am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Isn't the registry how a parent found out that a registered sex offender was working at a school as a crossing guard because of the lax background check requirements at the school. Obviously the registry is serving it's purpose. I don't want to be on the list, so I don't do perverse things. If it was up to me, he wouldn't have the ABILITY to do this to anyone else after being convicted, if you know what I mean. KEEP THE REGISTRY!!!!!!!
ditto :+8
(show comment)
Silliness....
Report Commentby Summer E. @ 9:12am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
What about the little girl's rights? This is just dumb.
ditto :+10
(show comment)
Ok, I have another solution.
Report Commentby captain kangaroo @ 9:18am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Instead of a registry we just tattoo "Perverted Child Rapist" across his forehead.
insightful :+6
(show comment)
I wonder
Report Commentby rusty d @ 9:21am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
how many books he had time to read in prison before getting out, convincing him he know understood rights. Maybe he failed to read the part about others rights.
He's been given enough rights by still being protected by the law, if someone decided to beat him into the ground. Which would be far deserved.
P.O.S
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yep
ditto :+4
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Gut Shot
Report Commentby Cody O. @ 9:29am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
BOOKS READ IN PRISON-
Now lets be serious- not about the books but about prison.How often do these creeps even serve real prison time?
I know several men (Sorry no women do I know personally)
who have abused their kids or others children and never even go to jail.
I wonder what the stats show about how many really ever serve time at all for these kind of crimes.
I also know a couple mothers who have allowed the husbands or fathers back into their lives and homes after they have abused their kids- even one who waited for 3 years for the dad to get out so she could welcome him home with open arms.Disgusting.Are you so desperate?
They should all be gut shot- including the women who love and support them!
See how lenient I am?
ditto :+7
(show comment)
Big Deal
Report Commentby Jan C. @ 9:26am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
So he feels violated. Wah.
funny :+7
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April
Report Commentby Ray's Daddy @ 9:27am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
April Fools is over, but this shmuck is just milking it.
ditto :+8
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(No Subject)
Report Commentby WJ84088 @ 9:27am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Lack of due process?? Doesn't give him a chance to defend himself??
He was convicted. He had his due process and the opportunity to defend himself. He is luck I don't make the rules or he would not be around to bring a lawsuit!
The registry is a good thing. I think we should go further and implant GPS trackers in them so you can see where they are real time!!
ditto :+6
(show comment)
His rights....
Report Commentby Q @ 9:28am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
He had the right to choose to comit this crime, which he used, then he had a right to a fair trial, which he was convicted in. He now has the right to shut the he// up and be on any list that will protect my family and children. If I was in charge they would have took him out back and let the parents of the child he violated shoot him. That would be justice, not some list that tells where he lives. Stinking rights, he should have no more rights, he should be dead.
He wants to defend himself, maybe we should give him a butter knife, nail his man parts to a gas covered log and light the log on fire. Then he has the right to cut it off or burn to death. That should be his last right.
What scum!!!
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Q
ditto :+4
(show comment)
I'm probably going to get trolls for this...
Report Commentby Katielk777 @ 9:35am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I think each case should be looked at and depending on how severe the case is should be put on the registry. I don't think that an 18 year old who has sex with their 17 year old boyfriend/girlfriend should be put on the list for the rest of their life. The same goes for someone eho is caught urinating in public. Many people do it, but if you're caught you are considered a sex offender and will be on the list forever...
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My cat's breath smells like cat food.
ditto :+5
(show comment)
(No Subject)
Report Commentby WJ84088 @ 9:52am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
An 18 year old who has sex with a 17 year old would not be on the list or even charged because there is no crime there.
ditto :+2
(show comment)
(No Subject)
Report Commentby WJ84088 @ 9:53am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
And you also would not be on the registry for merely urinating in public although it does fall under the lewdness statute.
ditto :+1
(show comment)
(No Subject)
Report Commentby Katielk777 @ 10:00am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
An 18 year old is having sex with a minor. That is a crime.
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My cat's breath smells like cat food.
split vote :0
(show comment)
Point to the Utah Statute on that...
Report Commentby Emoemoemo @ 10:09am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I mean, on an 18 yr old and a 17 yr old...
I do admit that Utah would have problems with an 18 yr old and a 14 yr old.
troll :-1
(show comment)
(No Subject)
Report Commentby Katielk777 @ 10:20am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
This website shows that there are rediculous laws here and other states that would put people on the sex offenders list...
http://www.geocities.com/eadvocate/issues/harm-register.html
One of them being public urination...
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My cat's breath smells like cat food.
(show comment)
Since you won't look up Utah law...
Report Commentby Emoemoemo @ 11:28am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Here is the law in question, that lets an 18-year-old have sex with a 17-year-old:
76-5-401.2. Unlawful sexual conduct with a 16 or 17 year old.
(2) A person commits unlawful sexual conduct with a minor ... the actor who is ten or more years older than the minor at the time of the sexual conduct
Just so you don't have to do the math, an 18-year-old is not 10 years older than a 17-year-old.
(show comment)
(No Subject)
Report Commentby Katielk777 @ 11:42am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Thank you for pointing out that an 18 year old isn't 10 years older than a 17 year old. I might not have figured that out on my own. So I guess it's ok for a 25 year old to have sex with a 16 year old then. Anyways I was using that as an example for my opinion. No need to get all worked up.
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My cat's breath smells like cat food.
(show comment)
I will agree
Report Commentby csiny @ 12:22pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
its a much more gray aren when its 17/18
it would depend on concent in my view.
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“All creatures great and small, GOD created one and all.“
ditto :+7
(show comment)
Steven Briggs is a crybaby
Report Commentby red-dwarfette @ 9:35am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I didn't even know his name and face was on the registry until he made a big fuss about it.
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White bird must fly or she will die
ditto :+6
(show comment)
I am pleased
Report Commentby Ann B. @ 9:36am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
That Utah all allows full access to the registry, with pictures and addresses. It is sad all states do not do this. I was shocked to hear that the principal of my best friend's elementary school and my neighbor growing up was a registered sex offener in Mass. I went to look on the Mass site and it has very limited access to regular citizens. I could find the name but not the crimes, pictures or addresses in Mass. they are protected unless you can prove you live in the neighbor (not that you might be considering buying a home and want to check)
I am very happy the state of Utah gives me this information when I have been looking to by a home. I recently saw a home in st george listed as a cozy safe neighborhood by the realtor and I looked up the address and the two homes next to this home have registered sex offenders living in them. This is a safe cozy neghborhood? glad I have the information on the website and don't have to rely on a relator's description.
It is also very helpul because I would have never suspected so many senior citizens to be on the list. How many times I have seen my neighbors in st george call our senior citizen neighbors second grandparenst to their kids. I'm glad a can do a check once in awhile to see if any new senior offenders have moved in because most people would never think it was Mr x age 75 down the street, offering to take your kids down to the park.
ditto :+4
(show comment)
According To Utah's Sex Registry ....
Report Commentby Rifleman @ 9:42am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
..... Steven Arthur Briggs uses the alias "Brigham Young". He was convicted of a second degree felony on July 13, 1988. I would have thought that this would be a first degree felony offense.
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When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.
ditto :+6
(show comment)
(No Subject)
Report Commentby The Real Rory Shackleford @ 9:45am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I speak for everyone when I say that I won't post the link, but you really ought to go to the online registry (on the department of corrections website) and check this fruitcake out.
Not only is he 61 years old, but one of his aliases is Brigham Young. AAH AAH AHH!!! No way this dude is in his right mind.
I also guarantee you can't do a random search (by zip code, for example) and not find a creepy looking person in your first three clicks. Guaranteed creepiness, or your money back.
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Rory Shackleford, Esq.
“I DO speak for you!“
(show comment)
(No Subject)
Report Commentby Topazz @ 1:37pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Still love you Rory!
ditto :+7
(show comment)
It is really quite simple
Report Commentby J. H. @ 9:45am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I know a really good way to not have your rights "violated" by he sex offender registry:
DON'T SEXUALLY ABUSE A CHILD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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“Whether you think you can, or that you can't, you are usually right.“ Henry Ford
troll :-4
(show comment)
I'm sure
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 10:23am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
If he had a time machine, he'd find your advice quite useful.
split vote :0
(show comment)
What Does A Time Machine Have To Do With Sex Offenders? - Derbeste
Report Commentby Rifleman @ 10:46am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Even young children know right from wrong. All criminals knew what they were doing was wrong - but chose to do it anyway.
Ever stop to think Derbeste - maybe his victim and her family wish that she had a time machine.
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When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.
ditto :+1
(show comment)
lol
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 11:25am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Ever stop to think my comments are not defending this criminal?
So many emotionally charge posters instinctively feel that if you aren't spewing death and judgement that you are defending him.
I merely point out that retro advice is not going to convince him to drop his petition.
It's not a commentary. It's a statement of fact.
Is that enough thought?
troll :-3
(show comment)
when
Report Commentby csiny @ 12:42pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
you start speaking for the kids and how we can stop these monsters- I will listen to you.
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“All creatures great and small, GOD created one and all.“
split vote :0
(show comment)
Then why would you ever think
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 1:16pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I would listen to you?
Or care about "trolling" every post I do?
All that does is denote that you have no logical retort.
I don't care if YOU listen to me. YOU are not the only one I am addressing by posting in a public forum.
Yet I have to give your reply something of a compliment.
At least are trying to address the present and future...
Rather than futily trying to correct his past.
ditto :+8
(show comment)
How about....
Report Commentby kwb18 @ 9:46am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
You don't sexually abuse little kids! And stop complaining about your rights when you took the rights away from a 9yr old girl.
Let's be honest, the only reason he doesn't want to be on there is because he's trying to hide his sick actions and he's embarrassed, which he should be.
insightful :+4
(show comment)
Here is his profile on the sex offender registry
Report Commentby inacrazyworld @ 9:46am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I don't like to judge people by their looks but this guy fits the bill of a child molester.
http://corrections.utah.gov/asp-bin/sexoffender.asp?offender=39266&addrid=722398&jurs_flg=U&name_id=156554&sex_ofndr_id=752
insightful :+6
(show comment)
(No Subject)
Report Commentby red-dwarfette @ 9:49am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
The child was 9 years old. Now he's got everyone's attention. His picture:
http://www.familywatchdog.us/ViewOffenderDetails.asp?oID=UT39266&aID=&at=1&sid=&sp=1&nm=
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White bird must fly or she will die
funny :+9
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Everyone take it easy!
Report Commentby Barahir @ 9:53am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Remember, as an American citizen this guy has rights!!
For example, his right to be stripped naked, greased down in honey and released into a pit of horny, perverted, baboons.
funny :+4
(show comment)
ha ha
Report Commentby inacrazyworld @ 9:56am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I almost took you seriously there for 1/2 a second..
ditto :+1
(show comment)
[no swearing please]
Report Commentby I troll you even when you @ 10:34am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
That sounds like so much fun !!! I am in
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This is my 5th name on this board.
funny :+1
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Barahir
Report Commentby Wolfman @ 8:06pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
You have the new idea for a reality show. WHoever lives gets to spend the rest of thier lives in prison. Of course we know what happens to the losers.
Death by wild horny baboon humping.
ditto :+4
(show comment)
(No Subject)
Report Commentby Sportybabe @ 10:04am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
How many times will this guys sex offender registry be hit today? Good way to draw attention to yourself moron!
disagree :-1
(show comment)
YES YES YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report Commentby Why A. @ 10:05am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
It is about time someone stands up and fights this crap I know there are MEN and BOYS who do NOT brlong on it. For example there or men on here that thought THERE so CALLED VICTEM was over 18 and then after there the girls parnets find out and HE finds out that she LIED to him and even though he has websites after websites of this tramp saying she is 21yrs old he still is on the sex offenders list. Why is this becuase this is UTAH. It needs to be fixed
ditto :+1
(show comment)
So....
Report Commentby Mike D. @ 10:19am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I can read. I understand that there will be differences in the severity of the offense. I understand that some 19 year old getting caught with his 17 year old girlfriend isn't something to be all that concerned about. I don't think there are too many like that on the registry. The rate at which these scum repeat their perverted crimes is so high they pose a real threat to society and we have a right to know where they live to keep ourselves safe. Do you have a problem with that?
ditto :+1
(show comment)
I'm sorry but...
Report Commentby inacrazyworld @ 10:20am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
If you cannot tell the difference between a 17 year old and a 21 year old you should probably not be sleeping around with random people. If you even knew the slightest about their life you would know some friends, family members, a job, something that would indicate that they were NOT A MINOR. There is NO EXCUSE for someone to make a mistake like that if you are using your head.
On the other hand I can see how a 17 year old girl with a 19 year old boy is not that big of a difference but if I remember correctly as long as you are not more than 2 years older then it is not a crime.
Maybe the ages of the victim should be posted on the registry? That would help us judge the severity of the crime a little better?
(show comment)
Have you looked around?
Report Commentby MeritStructures @ 4:24pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Sorry but I think it's a lot easier to make that mistake than you think. I am a woman but I have to say that I personally know several 17 year old girls who could easily pass for 21. And 17 year olds sneaking into bars is not unheard of .... if he finds her in there how is he supposed to know she is lying?
And yes it should be modified, I completely agree. The severity and ages, and age differences should all be taken into account and listed.
ditto :+7
(show comment)
What About My Rights
Report Commentby Shaun N. @ 10:13am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
to know that a sick individual is living in my neighborhood? The public has rights too! I have the right to the knowledge that a convicted sex offender is living down the street so I can ensure my kids and other kids in the neighborhood avoid his/her residence. Steven, you gave up your rights when you touched a child.
ditto :+4
(show comment)
You should have no rights
Report Commentby Polarprincess @ 10:15am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
if your name appears on the Utah State sex offenders registery or any other state registery. Any one that would do this to any person of any age is sick and does not deserve to live in any neightborhood. Did you think of the rights of the victim before you destroyed their lifes for ever? NO you did not. So why should we as the public give a crap about you you feel. You are lower than pond scum and deserve nothing less than being droped out in the middle of the ocean some where with bleeding wounds so the sharks or anything else that will eat trash will have a snack. People like you make me sick. Any readers go ahead and troll me for my response I DO NOT CARE. Crimminals like this deserve what they get. and then some.
ditto :+4
(show comment)
PIG
Report Commentby csiny @ 10:16am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Booo hooo.. you gave up every right to privacy and life - as far as I concerned.
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“All creatures great and small, GOD created one and all.“
ditto :+3
(show comment)
If you can't do the time, don't commit the crime...
Report Commentby Wake-up-and-smell-the-coffee @ 10:22am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
He already had is Constitutional right to defend himself -- in course -- and he was proven guility.
Having his name listed on the sex offender registry may not be doing much for his job prospects or this social life, but it is a consequence of his crime.
Lesson: If you don't want your name listed on the registry, don't run around molesting 9-year-old girls!
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Just my opinion...
ditto :+4
(show comment)
no registry
Report Commentby Marc M. @ 10:29am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I agree that he should not be on a sex affenders registry because we should not have one. All of these sex offenders should be in jail. They cannot be cured and should never be allowed in society. Thier attorneys should go with them.
insightful :+3
(show comment)
Get it Right
Report Commentby I troll you even when you @ 10:31am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
They should have a registers for every crime why only sex crimes?
I would like to know the murders and burglars living in my neighborhood..
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This is my 5th name on this board.
ditto :+1
(show comment)
Cry me a river
Report Commentby randoyl @ 10:35am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
This sub-human wants to cry and complain about being labeled a molester? Send him over this way, two minutes alone with him and a pair of dull rusty scissors and he will have a whole new set of problems to cry about, the least being on the list.
ditto :+2
(show comment)
UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!
Report Commentby alwaysright @ 10:36am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
You sex offenders are unconstitutional, you should be in prison for the rest of your life!!! I see nothing wrong with the website, I want to know where people like YOU live so I can protect my children you think that I want you pigs destroying the life of my kids because of your sick minded thoughts, no not a cold day in H***!! I think that when people like you move into a county a mailer should be sent out to everyone in that area just so we can protect our kids, because it is obvious that there is not hope in the justice system because YOU sex offenders are on the street, Justice would be you going to prison for the rest of your natural life. You want to defend yourself oh please and say you didn't do it!!!!
ditto :+1
(show comment)
(No Subject)
Report Commentby Blob @ 10:44am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Yes he has rights. So do away with the list. Find the meat grinder. Grind us his [removed] and feed it to him on a hot dog bun. Then mark his forehead with a nice big tatto that says MOLESTER. Then we would not need a list anymore and that would save us a lot of money.
Or we could dress them up like a little kid put them all on an island and let them all have a free for all with each other. They are all creeps.
ditto :+5
(show comment)
Can you belive this!
Report Commentby paolka @ 10:48am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
We can brag about being one of the most powerful countries in the world but Oh! my gosh we should be ashamed of our position when it comes to our children's rights and the way we "protect them" against sexual crimes, we are at the bottom of the list on that one!
I could not belive when I read "and some justices did say the implication of being on the registry could be worse than the offense" what about the mental scars that little girl has for the rest of her life now!
Utah is a very family oriented state and we should be the example to the nation with stronger laws or implement 1 strike you are out system. To that guy that is so embarrased to be on the list, well that is the least you can sufer. Hey Utah Law makers when are you going to show courage and deal with this issue that is affecting our most precious jewels? show who is the boss AND SEND THIS GUYS TO JAIL FOR LIFE! I don't care if I have to pay more taxs, you raise our taxes for far more less important matters!
Can you tell I am outrage? we should all be! I see people marching on the street defending the "immigrants rights" what about our children Utah?
ditto :+2
(show comment)
the other side of the fence
Report Commentby deepsouth @ 10:52am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
no one can ever erase the pain that that little girl felt when he assulted her, he lost his rights when he took hers away! he can whine all he wants keep the registry, no matter how much counciling she will get thru the years she will always look to that day with pain and sadness. he deserves much worse than just the registry! at least other parents can try to keep their children safe from him.
ditto :+3
(show comment)
Registry is to protect the citizens...
Report Commentby cdub @ 10:55am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
The Reqistry is designed to help protect citizens from creeps like that. If you abuse a child, the consequences should follow you until you are no longer a threat. There are two choices in my opinion; If they don't want to register as a Sex Offender for the rest of their lives they can elect to stay behind prison walls. The other choice is to register.
As a parent, I want to know if there is someone in my neighborhood that has already been convicted of a sex crime.
ditto :+4
(show comment)
(No Subject)
Report Commentby Utahlife @ 10:57am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
As a parent you should be worried about the people you don't know. The courts are filled with first time offenders, most often friends or relatives of the family.
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When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross
ditto :+3
(show comment)
(No Subject)
Report Commentby Utahlife @ 10:55am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I don’t agree with the sex offender registry three reasons.
1. Most importantly If they are still a danger to children they should be in custody and if they are not a danger then there is no need for the list.
2. The list is useless; I fear that it gives dumb parents a false sense of security. I don’t let my children hang around adults alone period. If other parents followed this simple rule it would stop these crimes almost 100%!
3. The people in my community, who steal, murder and commit other crimes I worry about. They should put people who have committed theft and violent crimes on the list too.
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When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross
(show comment)
I agree to an extent...
Report Commentby cdub @ 11:05am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
If they have been convicted of a sex crime they have proven they are a danger to society. There is no way of proving they will never offend. Do we keep them in prison for life? I'm thinking the cost would be too much.
funny :+1
(show comment)
Utah Sex Offender Registry
Report Commentby Professor Chaos @ 11:03am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Why can't I pull up his info on the registry. Am I just stupid?
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Simpsons already did it!
(show comment)
Never mind
Report Commentby Professor Chaos @ 11:05am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I got it to work. BTW- here is the site: http://www.udc.state.ut.us/asp-bin/sexoffender.asp?offender=39266&addrid=722398&jurs_flg=U&name_id=156554&sex_ofndr_id=752
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Simpsons already did it!
ditto :+4
(show comment)
Next time I'm in the 1500 Block of South West Temple in Salt Lake City,
Report Commentby Otherjonathon L. @ 11:08am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I'll be on the lookout for this lowlife.
He wants to "defend" himself, gee, how about defending potential VICTIMS!
What a piece of trash this creature is. It's not good PR for him to be putting this kind of "rights" whining out, since we've now lost another little innocent in our community.
I am sick of these guys, completely.
His current address is on the Department of Corrections-Sex Offender website for those interested in debating the merits of his claims with him.
I am not interested in a single solitary thing he's got to say.
ditto :+3
(show comment)
I check the registry once every few months
Report Commentby Thriceshy @ 11:16am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
To see how things have changed in my neighborhood. Here's how I figure it--if you've been convicted of a sexual crime, it's a matter of public record. If I, as a private citizen, can freely access this information then bye-bye any right to privacy.
I do have to say, though, that when I discovered a convicted sex offender with a child victim living directly across the street from a local elementary school, the folks at the department of corrections not only failed to answer my concerns, they REMOVED THE MAN'S ADDRESS FROM THE REGISTRY SITE. No, they didn't move HIM away from the school, they just pulled his address so parents wouldn't know that he was fifty feet from an elementary school.
Go, Utah.
I contacted the department of corrections (who did the quick-pull on the address), PTA (interested but unable to do much), the Principal (horrified, but unable to do much), the local cops (who said it wasn't a crime), and even my local state rep (who never responded).
I guess what I'm trying to say is this--by all means, keep an eye on that registry, but know that the state will alter listings rather than address problems with sex offender placement in the community.
ditto :+2
(show comment)
wow really
Report Commentby shorty 948 @ 11:23am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
i personaly think that they should get put to death so if all you have to do is register as a sex affender get over it you tool the innocense of a child that they will never get back.
ditto :+2
(show comment)
once a molester
Report Commentby sweet babies @ 11:28am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
always a molester!! forget the list.if someone molest a child they should be handed over to the parents to do what is right!!kill them all
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karen taylor
ditto :+2
(show comment)
(No Subject)
Report Commentby Annie B. @ 11:34am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Does this guy really expect anyone to have sympathy for him? He knew that if you commit a sexual crime you go on the sex offender list and he did it anyways...i think child molesters should get the death penalty. its just as bad as murder only the victim has to LIVE with it there whole life. BURN IN HE** MOTHER F****R!
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Speak your mind even if your voice shakes!
(show comment)
Annie B.
Report Commentby Wolfman @ 8:48pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I agree with the burn part but i do not believe the registry was around when he committed his crime.
Anybody got a match, He!! on earth. HE HE
ditto :+3
(show comment)
sick
Report Commentby sweetangel27 @ 11:44am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
you know i was molested by a step father. he isn't listed anywhere. i think everyone of these sick bas***** need to be raped them selfs then stuck with all other prisoners let them take care of them. or put on an island left to die never to be seen or heard from. they don't deserve any rights. they all deserve to be strung up by there ankles and die a slow and painful death and anybody who defends them need the same done to them. i was only about 5 years old. they don't care about their victims. they need their genitals removed and then they can eat them. they are all nasty. i think the public should be able to decide what happens to them. they should never be released. they all need to die. heaven and he** are to good for them. i wish i could say everything i want to. well utah's just a bunch of pansies. we need hanging the chair without the wet sponge. they need to suffer. we need every death penalty known to man for these creeps. men or women. they are not men. they are not woman. my dogs a** is better then them. i would call my dogs a** a man or women before them. they give death penalties to someone who kills someone, well what about the people and children who loses a part of them who suffers all their life. who is never the same. i have been through it and i am know 27 years old and still can remember it. counseling doesn't work. your brain blocks it out. then you see a counseler and boom you remember it and can't forget it. the worst part is that the guy who did it went to prison and he's also my two half sisters dad. well THEY HAVE NO RIGHTS NOR DO THEY NEED ANY RIGHTS. SO anybody defending them need the same done to them.
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Do Upon Others What You Want Done To You.
Removed By Moderator
Report Commentby I troll you even when you @ 11:54am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
ditto :+3
(show comment)
troll
Report Commentby sweetangel27 @ 12:03pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
you know what i have graduated school i am a stay at home mother of 7 i've been married for 11 years so no i don't use that as an excuse thank you. i'm actually going to a university right know so what. what you must be a predator? i don't give them the pleasure of ruining my life. i only state what about the 5 years it took to get him in prison having to relive it. thewn being five years old if my older sister and brother would of never walked in then he most likely would of never been convicted. because a 5 year old couldn't be on stand. so go f**** yourself.
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Do Upon Others What You Want Done To You.
troll :-5
(show comment)
Oh
Report Commentby I troll you even when you @ 12:51pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Great Mother you are using the F word..Made my point Thanks...
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This is my 5th name on this board.
troll :-1
(show comment)
oh
Report Commentby sweetangel27 @ 1:24pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
you know what my kids are all in school right know. so i can use what language i want. second my young infants are asleep. see your being removed by moderator. shows how you are. you have to have 5 names this is my first and only
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Do Upon Others What You Want Done To You.
ditto :+1
(show comment)
words dont even begin
Report Commentby csiny @ 12:46pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
to tell you how I feel about you or your words.
Get over it when its your baby, get over it.
I have a great job, and I function fine. But my abuse is and will always be there. Its a daily thing to get through.
your not even worth the time because you will never understand until it happens to your loved one.
It is said 1 in 4 children are abused. Some never tell so the number could be higher. That an epidemic
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“All creatures great and small, GOD created one and all.“
ditto :+3
(show comment)
registry
Report Commentby sweetangel27 @ 11:56am - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
well i knew someone who's son was on the list and when he got out he used one address and lived somewhere else. he then molested more kids. he has know got three strikes and he probably will be right back out. even though the third strike law is there. they are all scum. they said he was rehabilitated is that what they call rehab.? they get out to do it again. no monitoring he was suppose to have surprise visits and that didn't happen. so look at pictures not addresses.
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Do Upon Others What You Want Done To You.
ditto :+1
(show comment)
(No Subject)
Report Commentby Ed N. @ 12:05pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
If you molest any child under age, you should get the death penalty.NO EXCEPTIONS.
disagree :-4
(show comment)
I do believe in forgiveness
Report Commentby beckss @ 12:56pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
It depends the the circumstances and the severity of the molestation case. What's done is done. Most of these men are just trying to pick up the pieces of their lives. This scarlet letter approach in some but not all cases is way too harsh. Once they serve their time and probabation, they should start with a clean slate.
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“The only thing needed for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing“
ditto :+2
(show comment)
What?
Report Commentby MeritStructures @ 4:37pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Pieces of THEIR lives????? What about the pieces of their victims lives? I dont believe they can be rehabilitated, but the law says they can. Even if that were true -- why the he** should they get a clean slate? Their victims get to be tortured by their memories and everything that affects for the rest of thier lives. They don't get a clean slate -- why should their attackers get one????
ditto :+1
(show comment)
You must be....
Report Commentby Afwife @ 8:48am - Fri Apr 4th, 2008
one of them who in their right mind thinks that after you do something like that to a child, you do your time and you get a clean slate..
ditto :+2
(show comment)
RAHAB?
Report Commentby Annie B. @ 12:10pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
HAHAHAHA you CAN NOT REHABILITAIT a sex offender NO SUCH THING! Wait unless they are dead!
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Speak your mind even if your voice shakes!
troll :-1
(show comment)
Do you realize
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 12:26pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
That the man in this very case has been CLEAN for 20 years?
ditto :+3
(show comment)
clean
Report Commentby sweetangel27 @ 12:43pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
how do you know for sure? you with him everyday all day and night. no one knows for sure. how would you know unless your with him all the time.
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Do Upon Others What You Want Done To You.
split vote :0
(show comment)
Innocent
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 12:59pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Till proven guilty? (for each crime)
ditto :+2
(show comment)
(No Subject)
Report Commentby Blair A. @ 12:56pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
or hasn't been caught till now!!
split vote :0
(show comment)
He hasn't been caught at all
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 2:51pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
He was convicted 20 years ago and is still on the registry (which means he is obeying the law and being cooperative).
Clearly he feels 20 years of good behavior is enough time to bring up issues.
If you disagree, that is perfectly fine. That is at the heart of the discussion.
But unless you have evidence that would prove more transgression, it is thoroughly unamerican to condemn him any further without anything to back up your claim.
ditto :+1
(show comment)
20 years ago?
Report Commentby Lana Banana @ 3:01pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
What about the little girl do you think she has just forgotton after 20 years? What is wrong with you? He commited a crime that will affect this little girl forever. Now he shall pay forever. I cant believe you would make that statement, I am ashamed for you!
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Lana
offtopic :-3
(show comment)
You assume too much
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 3:26pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Show me...where in my statement I said he should be taken off the registry or pardoned or given any other manner of leniancy for what he did in 1988?
I merely pointed out that those here cannot arbitrarily state he has done it AGAIN since then with no evidence.
I can't believe you couldn't understand that, I am ashamed for your comprehension skills!
ditto :+4
(show comment)
I think
Report Commentby Babette @ 4:06pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
continued registration is similar to continued death in the case of capital punishment.
Society has decided he is a threat for life, but may be able to control himself. We don't kill him, but we don't fully trust him either.
In the event his rehabilitation doesn't last, the registry exists so his neighbors have the "right" to protect themselves and their children.
It may be he has learned his lesson, I certainly hope so. At the same time, I want to protect my children just in case he decides to try it again.
funny :+1
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(No Subject)
Report Commentby Utahlife @ 2:42pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Is this first hand experiance you are talking from?
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When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross
ditto :+2
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Violating another human being...
Report Commentby Phoebe the flash @ 12:59pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
especially children. I find THAT unconstitutional, not to mention sick.
The slime buckets who do this sort of thing GIVE UP THEIR RIGHTS when they choose to hurt someone like that. Zero sympathy from me.
What if we started putting these people away for the rest of their lives? That would eliminate the need for a registry, now wouldn't it?
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My dog is the world's best dog.
ditto :+3
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This is not an issue of punishment...
Report Commentby Cachecritters @ 1:14pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
it is an issue of protecting the public especially the children from these monsters. If the powers that be are going to turn this pieces of crap back out into society and deem them "cured" which can never happen. We need to protect our children from them and yes we do have a right to know. I also don't think that the Mormon Church should welcome these sickos into thier church or ward house. I have a niece who was sexually molested by a member in good standing in the dark foyer of an LDS wardhouse during a Ward Christmas Party. Christmas will never be the same for this family or the other families of many other children both boys and girls after my niece told and an invstigation was done there were may other children in this ward who were molested by this same person. Also check your local legislature leaders as the replican powers that be in the state legislature really tore the Jessica's bill all to He** in this state and one of the things that they did not like was forcing these monsters to wear the GPS devices. I think we really need to keep better track of these maniacs so that this same thing does not happen to more children and it will take all of us working together to do this.
disagree :-1
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A Question
Report Commentby Facade @ 4:18pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Was the man who you know in your ward ever conviced of a sexual offense prior to the situation with your neice? Was he listed on the register?
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Facade
huh? :-6
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Any one who looks at porn is a potential sex offender
Report Commentby beckss @ 1:35pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
and is probably more dangerous than a repentant sex offender.
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“The only thing needed for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing“
huh? :-2
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Any one with reproductive organs is a potential sex offender
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 2:34pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Fixed.
troll :-3
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So are you suggesting that
Report Commentby beckss @ 3:06pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
We sterilize everyone?
We are all built with the same plumbing.
Some are able to bridle their appetites and some aren't.
Any type of porn will intice these appetites or fetishes.
Child porn will intice pedophiles
Gay porn will intice homosexuals.
The problem is porn.
Take away the porn and 95% of the problem is eliminated.
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“The only thing needed for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing“
insightful :+1
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Effectiveness vs. practicality vs. freedom
Report Commentby Derbeste @ 3:31pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
And?
Take away all the plumbing and 100% of the problem is eliminated.
Is it practical? Of course not.
That is like solving all of our energy problems by blowing up the world.
But you cannot blame sexual deviancy (or orientation) on porn.
People don't get sexual BECAUSE of porn.
They porn BECAUSE they are sexual.
The problem is people.
It's like guns. Guns don't kill people....people kill people.
Porn doesn't cause molestation...people cause molestation.
Then there is that pesky issue of freedom of speech. To eliminate porn would be worse than the problems porn MAY cause because of the precident that sets to limit freedom.
The problem.....is ignorance. Always has been. Always will be.
troll :-1
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Sterilization
Report Commentby Babette @ 4:10pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
doesn't fix anything. Typically these are crimes of power, and sex is the vehicle to control the victim. This may be incorrect for some, there are those who are attracted to children, but not most.
For those who have a perverse attraction, it can be controlled, just as all should control themselves when they see someone they are attracted to.
If the underlying power problem is fixed, then it is possible the man may be safe. Emphasis on maybe. I'm not sure I'm willing to take the risk with my children.
ditto :+4
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??????????????
Report Commentby MeritStructures @ 4:46pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
While I am not a fan of porn -- how can you possibly say that? There are many people who look at porn sometimes that would never ever ever hurt someone else sexually much less a child and would be horrified at the thought. You cannot possibly label people like that!
ditto :+1
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What the ........
Report Commentby kcnheddo @ 2:56pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Tell this scumbag that raping a 9 year-old girl is also unconstitutional.
Good Lord, I'm speechless.....
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loveistheanswer
ditto :+1
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Come to think of it..
Report Commentby kcnheddo @ 3:15pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
...I want to do something VERY unconstitutional to his scumbag.
The fact that he's breathing air on this planet is somehow unconstitutional.
Arrrrgg.............
Absolutely nothing worse, nothing more vile, nothing more inhumane than a freakin' pedophile.
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loveistheanswer
ditto :+1
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Honestly....
Report Commentby kcnheddo @ 3:20pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
...I don't know what is worse: a pedophile or a suicide bomber.
I promise, people, there is no difference and they deserve no rights whatsoever.
Call your Congressman right now and demand water boarding and castration among other tortures for scumbags who touch children.
I've gotta quit now or else I'm gonna go torch one right now....
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loveistheanswer
ditto :+4
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Stay on subject people!!!!!!!!!
Report Commentby paolka @ 3:57pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
I have being reading all comments and some show exactly the reazon why in our state sexual crimes aren't punished hard enought BECAUSE PEOPLE THINK IS NOT BIG DEAl!!!!! can't belive some of the things I am reading... forgivnes, rehab for the poor sex ofender. I our society this days that is what people think, "the victim was very young, he/she will forget an move on, HOW IGNORANT!!!!! the mind is a powerfull thing and some of this young victims NEVER recover. I have work with children that have being sexually abuse at a very young age and let me tell you, yes they keep playing like kids but OH they have a hard time trusting people, others react the oposite and are very sexual, some kids will slepp with their lights on because they feel more secure, and I can keep going on and on, but is that enough of a picture for all the ignorant people out there that believe that the OFENDER needs another chance? let me put it in a diferent way, if some man raped your little daughter, son etc. would you thing that that man needs another chance? ......I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!
ditto :+2
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paolka
Report Commentby Wolfman @ 8:18pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Since you work with them then you realize that alot of these pervs were molested as children. I know one who the system is failing. He will offend, again. I took him in as a child and spent more time in theropy and at the school with him because he was already offending girls in the halls of school. He was mean and doing very bad things to the little girls at school. I eventually had to turn him over to the courts which he was a ward of.
ditto :+2
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What About the Innocent?
Report Commentby Facade @ 4:11pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
This situation goes both ways, and I do agree with stiff penalties for offenders. However, my concern, as witnessed by such forums as this, is that, as time goes on, I feel it is more and more unrealistic that people ACCUSED of such a crime can and will receive a fair and impartial trial.
It is very easy for someone to be accused and, if charged with a sexual offense, they are ALWAYS presumed guilty. I just hope at some point the system we have in place works both ways- to prosecute the guilty and recognize the innocent.
A lifetime sentence for an innocent person does seem an extremely harsh penalty.
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Facade
ditto :+3
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Focus people, focus!
Report Commentby paolka @ 4:39pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
We are talking about a CONVICTED SEX OFFENDER!!!!!!!
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(No Subject)
Report Commentby Jessie B. @ 7:37pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Making him wear a bright orange shirt that says "Sex offender" across the front wouldn't be unconstitutional. What is wrong with these people!
ditto :+1
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Sex Offenders...
Report Commentby Jon V. @ 7:50pm - Thu Apr 3rd, 2008
Need to kill themselves. Anyone that thinks they can get away with doing such perverted things to any child needs to re-think- oops! I just remembered, they say that these kind of people have a mental disorder and its okay for them to have this disorder. Well, that is fine by me but I just hope that I never catch on of these "sick in the freakin' mind idiots" doing anything to any child or else.... This guy is just embarrassed and doesn't want anyone to know what he did so he can hang out at the park or wherever kids are and prey on another child. This is the kind of people we all need to be on the watch for. I wish we could do something about getting the law changed to something more severe such as the death sentence without wasting our tax dollars by sitting behind bars for one minute...
split vote :0
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A Far Bigger Issue
Report Commentby Facade @ 8:51am - Fri Apr 4th, 2008
Realistically, the register does not solve the problem, it is another band-aid used to fix a far bigger wound. If the statistics are correct and 1 in 4 children is being abused, we have far bigger issues we need to be using our time and resources to cure rather than administering a register.
I know it offers a sense of security to some to have a list they can go to and feel empowered to protect their communities. But seriously, is it really working and effective to protect our children- I don't think so. It simply seems to present other issues as addressed in this forum- a false sense of security, major administrative stresses and concerns, etc.
Let's focus our attention and resources on the victims, work to end the cycle and see if we cannot resolve the primary problem versus applying a shakey remedy. In order to ultimately feel safe, we must quit avoiding the bigger problem at hand.
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Facade
ditto :+1
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My rights and responsibilities to protect my children
Report Commentby J.A.N. @ 9:14am - Fri Apr 4th, 2008
FAR outweigh this loser's "rights"
What a piece of work!
I sit here shaking my head in disbelief...
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In raising my children, I have lost my mind but found my soul.
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"and some justices did say the implication of being on the registry could be worse than the offense."
Report Commentby rdefined @ 11:00am - Fri Apr 4th, 2008
"and some justices did say the implication of being on the registry could be worse than the offense."
I find this so funny because from my expeirence I know that most of the cases end in plea deals!!!
How can it be "worse then the offense" if they only way they can charge you is with evidence! It really takes a lot to file a case against someone!
I know of offenders who have had over 9 charges pressed against them and were a previous offender and were able to get a plea deal down to 1 min. charge!
Since he was already on the registry they didn't even add the charges pressed against him from this victim!!!
Those of you who have been through this court process or know of someone who has are probably just as discusted by the court system as I am! These men just never recieve the justice they truly deserve, especially the repeat offenders!
Usually after your first offense you're only on the registry for 10 years! I'm all about forgiving but I want to protect my family!
Serving 6 months isn't justice for doing something that will effect other for life!
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Regarding the laws
Report Commentby rdefined @ 11:38am - Fri Apr 4th, 2008
Look, I am tired of reading all the "laws" when you all have no idea what you're talking about. How about you do us all a favor and inform yourself before you start to assuming what the laws are!
I believe the laws have been well put together however, I do not believe that they all have appropriate consequences... which are being updated as we speak. There is a lot of research and time that goes into these.
Please read through these laws before you make anymore comments
http://corrections.utah.gov/asp-bin/sexoffendersearchform.asp
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Isn't it interesting
Report Commentby Diedre J. @ 7:11pm - Fri Apr 4th, 2008
that the folks most worried out having their rights protected are the ones who are victimizing others.
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